3.0 lasted for 13 months. This one haven't lasted 9 months yet. So still some time to go.

3.0 started in july 2009 ended august 2010

This one started March 2011.

<- xD Love that way of starting a convo/comment _o_ uuuh, thats all, dont care what the actual opinion was though, didnt read the rest :$ .

Felt it was necessary to give my two cents as I love the soothing sound of my own voice.

It is incredibly difficult to organize an effective war when 70% of your members rely solely on lackeys to rank. Furthermore, it is difficult to coordinate with other families because they face the same complications.

In my opinion the reason people blame lackeys for the downfall of the game is several fold... though the steady collapse of the game over the course of longer versions is actually a much broader issue.

#1 - Lackey's lead to families with high numbers of brugs, with low numbers of bullets. This can result in families being a huge pain in the ass to bring down, subsequently leading to fewer wars as more people turn solely to lackeys.
#2 - Suiciders also present a very real issue now that people are less attached to their accounts. This means that you better be ready to not only kill the primary players of a family, but the lackeys as well. Nothing makes you feel shittier than losing a member's (or your own) account to a suicider lackey account that you could have killed weeks prior but didn't because offline time was 10 days.
#3 - Due to the behavior of KS and RP, players and their families who have been going since the start of the version have an insane advantage over newcomers.
#4 - Starting again at this point, regardless of the actual effort you as a player put in, a 100% lackey ranked account can still ultimately kill you
#5 - Touching on #2, there are a lot of... unstable... players on this game. People who are easy to anger, difficult to reason with, and quick to suicide. Forcing those people to consider the time it will take to rerank an account used to serve to dissuade irrational actions. not any longer with lackeys. Unfortunately these people are too shortsighted to see the overall handicap to their own accounts, and lackeys present them an easy method to rerank.

It's also pointless at this point to attempt a resurgence of an aggressive play style as the ASFU alliance will crush you immediately, fearing eventual competition (makes sense for them). I think players that enjoy the aggressive, tactical nature of the game, are dissuaded from playing further as at this point in the game, it's the families that avoided war early on that rule the roost.

I've been a top of a wide variety of excessively aggressive fams over the last 8 years, and people who know me know I play 1 account per version. The reason for this is not only because I have other interests, but as a version progresses the game really does become much more bland. Families are not as willing to take risks (which is half the fun), bloodships are not as loyally upheld (due to families worrying more about saving their own ass and continuing to endure, knowing how inferior they would be if forced to restart), new families are introduced to the game led by tops who have no business being a top (just serving as a pestilence... or suiciding their entire family on an irrational whim), huggers populate the fam list (which means they are naturally going to be stronger than any account you can create on reboot), and players don't play with the same enthusiasm (probably for the above mentioned reasons).

This is my perception of the situation and my reason for not playing. Lackey's would not be a detractor if not for the ease with which they empower players I do not want empowered. I'm ready to play again, as I believe many others are a well, but I'm not going to waste my time playing in this environment. Then again, I don't mind waiting a few more months either.

tl:dr Lackey's are just a small part of a broader issue. Namely the natural de-evolution of a version as families become more self-interested, player base becomes less interested, and the whole game becomes more conservative, and therefore boring. Lackey's are a good idea in theory but in actuality encourage irrationality and empower players that shouldn't be empowered.

I have to work so i cannot continue this discussion, however please do not twist around my arguments - my main point is that it only depends on how a person looks into the game.

If the person sees this as an opportunity to live normal life, and still have a good game, being reachable and maybe sometimes gathering in the evening to chat with others who do the same - he will enjoy lackeys.

The people who leave because others don't come on irc much - only contribute in the negative process.

It's all about free will and not forcing people to sit and chat (because you still have to sit and click anyway).

A lot? This one is 1y+ already isn't it?

3.0 i retired in the middle so i might not know how long exactly it was, my bad.
Though it had different issues (half of the version hard to kill because of rob and no mya, not enough ppl dying).

3.0 was a lot longer (1y+), I assume you remember that one. Or is your memory only about 2 versions long? :P

This version was the longest that i remember. Means there were always enough people to ensure it's not over.

Plain and simple.

wrong, the main complainers are the ones who see the game dead, without players, with irc empty. I dont give a crap if ppl script, use lackeys, cheat , or spend the intire day typing codes, what i give a crap is having a family member channel full, ppl to talk too, things to plan, things happening, a live game, which since we got introduced to lackeys, is over. Plain and simple.

I was not a very successful top, this is where you are correct.
The main reason for this was nothing else but TIME.

If some people choose to flush their best years down the toilet it is their choice of course. But now the game offered opportunity for those who want to have time for everything.

The main complainers are the ones who now cannot be so far ahead compared to the living ones :)

i have a hard time imagining you were a top of a fam dellamorte, prolly a not succefull one if you dont know that the only way to be good and have fun in this game, is by the time u spend on irc, and by the online ppl making relations and plans etc, or u think those slaves of urs go fuck and have fun and party and when they come back for 10 minutes for their brug account they know wtf is going on in the game, or took care of the fam, or planned anything ? your not very smart. Its not about being slave or not, if ppl choose to spend all day typing codes its their choice, its the way the game is played, if u dont want go play smth else, now if ppl are not around this game is nothing, this game cant be playing with 1h a day.

Exactly. Conditions changed and the ones who can't live with it chose not playing, without even thinking of the advantages.
I can only make conclusions that there were so way more no-lifers attached to PC, than i immagined. Or simply, scripters.

Immagine you keep slaves in gulag where they have to work to earn a piece of bread for themselves every day. Then after 5 years you let them go free, saying they can go do whatever they want - work elsewhere, get rich, have fun, drink and fuck a lot, and if they want they can always come back to a diner to have food whenever they want.

Do you think they will still stay and continue working? Or they adjust to the new style of life.

A bunch of slaves not used to freedom, this is what we are. Most of us.

War tonight Asfu against Rochester

Many of those wars were against fringe families. (Aka families without bloods, or with small bloods). Who asfu shot numerous times... (I think 3 of asfu's first wars were against the same 10 person family.) This war record is not something Asfu should want to show off. Both because of the timing, and the targets.

if the change made the ppl go away, its not the problem of the game ? rofl.... ok its the problem of all the ppl that dont think like you, and dont spent time in a game that is now effortless... excuse all of us that quited the game cause of lackeys, its you that is right.

I can pay it bro, but i wrote this for the ones who doesn't wanna pay it, or couldn't afford it because he is student etc.

it's funny that moderators start bashing first, all i can say is GL & HF :w

What's the fun when you can rank to like swindler, when others have more time and can be brugs? And how to have MORE active fun game being a thief, if you have the same time to spend on irc, that i had before when there were no lackeys.

I see that irc is empty. But do not blame lackeys for that. Blame people for no knowing how to use them.

It is really interesting, how people managed to be active when they had to click even when chatting, but cannot find an hour to come chat, when they don't need to click buttons? But that's something that is wrong with people who cannot adjust to the changes of the game, not the game itself.

nice comment redspeert, and you are suppose to be a moderator lmao

If you can't pay the price, go back to eating rice.

dellamorte you can still play the game without keeping up with the "addicted" noone says you have to try and be the highest rank, everyone should rank @ their own pace, but lackeys didnt give "life" back to the ppl, they destroyed the game, either you believe or not, irc is empty, online ppl are close to none, and without irc , planning , chatting , fam relations, this game is nothing, i agree with you that typing codes is no achievement , but thats what brought ppl together, try and organize a war when noone is on irc, or noone is rly caring (since lackeys are ranking for them).

if you dont have the time to "waste" rank less and be lower rank, but if you like to have your nice brug account, like 2k other ppl do and talk to the walls in irc and see 0 online ppl in fams... dunno what is there to like in that situation.

I rather be thief and have an active fun game, then a brug like all the rest in a boring game where nothing happens cause noone is rly around.

All i see in the past month is channels and nicks dropping in irc , believe me, most ppl have left or are leaving the game...

Indeed.

Main job for admins should have ever been catching dupers and proxy users, which is not really rocket science when u put your resources into it.

And yes, lackeys should be cheaper. I have been a tester of the new Star Wars: The old Republic MMORPG - it is awesome and has a great storyline, which makes your "ranking" like a good single player game, and then you can still go PvP. It will cost 13 euro a month, which is normal for that kind of game, i would say.

On lackeys/dc's you might spend like 10 euro a month. Comparing the games, for sure, DC's must be cheaper, or give more credits.