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General Comments & Major Rumors section.
Everyone knows where this section is for, keep it clean from flaming and only posts in english are allowed.
Everyone knows where this section is for, keep it clean from flaming and only posts in english are allowed.
anonymous (12:33:00 - 09-03)
anonymous at 11:11:57 on 09/03:
portucalia is pact asslicker
portucalia is pact asslicker
they lick the buttholes of pact and try to survive and gain a star on their hugging accounts
they even worse then anarchy, pacting with 10-12 fams
Achille at 12:30:24 on 09/03:
Hmm, no Victorious involved in this one 'rumor'? Something tells me you are from Victorious and trying to throw some dirt between other fams ;(
Anonymous at 12:22:45 on 09/03:
siberia+aeterna/lusa+bosp+port+sava+efes+prop vs maraz+siyah, collosal +fortress def for other fams at saturday
siberia+aeterna/lusa+bosp+port+sava+efes+prop vs maraz+siyah, collosal +fortress def for other fams at saturday
Anonymous at 12:22:45 on 09/03:
siberia+aeterna/lusa+bosp+port+sava+efes+prop vs maraz+siyah, collosal +fortress def for other fams at saturday
siberia+aeterna/lusa+bosp+port+sava+efes+prop vs maraz+siyah, collosal +fortress def for other fams at saturday
Anonymous (12:22:45 - 09-03)
siberia+aeterna/lusa+bosp+port+sava+efes+prop vs maraz+siyah, collosal +fortress def for other fams at saturday
Anonymous at 10:50:46 on 09/03:
I guess they weren't Ex Righelli, siberia, or aeterna
mmm at 10:24:03 on 09/03:
so that's why Kenshiro and Sicario got a-killed, coz they weren't strong enough. Sounds logical.
Anonymous at 10:21:38 on 09/03:
u think admins dont know or cant see the duper, cheater ip s? Ofc They do.
but cuz of the size of that accounts, they cant be akilled.
Everything for increase the COUNT OF PLAYER BASE.
i was ex righelli siberia and aeterna, and believe me i really know what i m talking about. even saw some logs between admins and tops of those fams. they were warning but couldnt akill
if u think omerta is fair, u are a fool.
u think admins dont know or cant see the duper, cheater ip s? Ofc They do.
but cuz of the size of that accounts, they cant be akilled.
Everything for increase the COUNT OF PLAYER BASE.
i was ex righelli siberia and aeterna, and believe me i really know what i m talking about. even saw some logs between admins and tops of those fams. they were warning but couldnt akill
if u think omerta is fair, u are a fool.
so that's why Kenshiro and Sicario got a-killed, coz they weren't strong enough. Sounds logical.
I guess they weren't Ex Righelli, siberia, or aeterna
anonymous (11:11:57 - 09-03)
portucalia is pact asslicker
Anonymous (10:50:46 - 09-03)
mmm at 10:24:03 on 09/03:
so that's why Kenshiro and Sicario got a-killed, coz they weren't strong enough. Sounds logical.
Anonymous at 10:21:38 on 09/03:
u think admins dont know or cant see the duper, cheater ip s? Ofc They do.
but cuz of the size of that accounts, they cant be akilled.
Everything for increase the COUNT OF PLAYER BASE.
i was ex righelli siberia and aeterna, and believe me i really know what i m talking about. even saw some logs between admins and tops of those fams. they were warning but couldnt akill
if u think omerta is fair, u are a fool.
u think admins dont know or cant see the duper, cheater ip s? Ofc They do.
but cuz of the size of that accounts, they cant be akilled.
Everything for increase the COUNT OF PLAYER BASE.
i was ex righelli siberia and aeterna, and believe me i really know what i m talking about. even saw some logs between admins and tops of those fams. they were warning but couldnt akill
if u think omerta is fair, u are a fool.
so that's why Kenshiro and Sicario got a-killed, coz they weren't strong enough. Sounds logical.
I guess they weren't Ex Righelli, siberia, or aeterna
Solstice (10:44:57 - 09-03)
Anonymous at 10:21:38 on 09/03:
u think admins dont know or cant see the duper, cheater ip s? Ofc They do.
but cuz of the size of that accounts, they cant be akilled.
Everything for increase the COUNT OF PLAYER BASE.
i was ex righelli siberia and aeterna, and believe me i really know what i m talking about. even saw some logs between admins and tops of those fams. they were warning but couldnt akill
if u think omerta is fair, u are a fool.
u think admins dont know or cant see the duper, cheater ip s? Ofc They do.
but cuz of the size of that accounts, they cant be akilled.
Everything for increase the COUNT OF PLAYER BASE.
i was ex righelli siberia and aeterna, and believe me i really know what i m talking about. even saw some logs between admins and tops of those fams. they were warning but couldnt akill
if u think omerta is fair, u are a fool.
I call bullshit.
Anonymous at 10:21:38 on 09/03:
u think admins dont know or cant see the duper, cheater ip s? Ofc They do.
but cuz of the size of that accounts, they cant be akilled.
Everything for increase the COUNT OF PLAYER BASE.
i was ex righelli siberia and aeterna, and believe me i really know what i m talking about. even saw some logs between admins and tops of those fams. they were warning but couldnt akill
if u think omerta is fair, u are a fool.
u think admins dont know or cant see the duper, cheater ip s? Ofc They do.
but cuz of the size of that accounts, they cant be akilled.
Everything for increase the COUNT OF PLAYER BASE.
i was ex righelli siberia and aeterna, and believe me i really know what i m talking about. even saw some logs between admins and tops of those fams. they were warning but couldnt akill
if u think omerta is fair, u are a fool.
so that's why Kenshiro and Sicario got a-killed, coz they weren't strong enough. Sounds logical.
Anonymous (10:21:38 - 09-03)
u think admins dont know or cant see the duper, cheater ip s? Ofc They do.
but cuz of the size of that accounts, they cant be akilled.
Everything for increase the COUNT OF PLAYER BASE.
i was ex righelli siberia and aeterna, and believe me i really know what i m talking about. even saw some logs between admins and tops of those fams. they were warning but couldnt akill
if u think omerta is fair, u are a fool.
but cuz of the size of that accounts, they cant be akilled.
Everything for increase the COUNT OF PLAYER BASE.
i was ex righelli siberia and aeterna, and believe me i really know what i m talking about. even saw some logs between admins and tops of those fams. they were warning but couldnt akill
if u think omerta is fair, u are a fool.
Anonymous (08:49:30 - 09-03)
darklazytologin at 20:49:52 on 08/03:
asddasdssadsdas we dont masspact we have a lot of old friends and they like playing with us and we show respect for them by blooding them i wont deny friends as bloods but victorious is a new fam and we definitely didnt merge with konin we made a NEW FAM and we have NEW bloods so not our usual 5 as1s and 8 bloods so please let victorious live and kill SIBERIA and COLOSSAL!! becuase they are pact not anarchy!! i mean victorious!! we are fuckin retired!!!!
Anonymous at 15:57:47 on 08/03:
Lol trying to do the same thing as last version, making propaganda on OB that Anarchy isn't masspacting. We all remember their words on OB, we never masspact, and what happened first war they showed the whole community they had created a huge pact (like they always do). You are just trying to make the people blind, Victorious = Anarchy, they always masspact that's a fact, and no not with only 2 or 3 fams, but with loads of fams, more like pacts with 8 fams thats more Anarchy style.
Anonymous at 04:25:47 on 08/03:
They have another pact with vexa but much weaker than siberia
Anonymous at 22:34:00 on 07/03:
You didnt include analchy/victorious so my bet is that you are either a top there or member who is trying to stir shit up.
Anonymous at 21:42:25 on 07/03:
Random fams? Siberia efes asones, savagery wolfspack bosphorus asones, aeterna lusa nazdroiva asones. And all blooded eachother.
Colossal and prophecy also blooded with those fams. So better fuck off...
Anonymous at 15:14:35 on 07/03:
Yes. list a bunch of random fams and viola; "pact" created
retardness never sleeps round this place.
Anonymous at 14:19:28 on 07/03:
add portucalia, savagery, wolfspack, efes, prophecy and nazdroiva into that pact.
11 fams in total. biggest pact ever :)
Anonymous at 06:15:09 on 07/03:
Siberia Aeterna Colossal Bosphorus Lusa
the pact will bang this round
Siberia Aeterna Colossal Bosphorus Lusa
the pact will bang this round
add portucalia, savagery, wolfspack, efes, prophecy and nazdroiva into that pact.
11 fams in total. biggest pact ever :)
retardness never sleeps round this place.
Colossal and prophecy also blooded with those fams. So better fuck off...
Lol trying to do the same thing as last version, making propaganda on OB that Anarchy isn't masspacting. We all remember their words on OB, we never masspact, and what happened first war they showed the whole community they had created a huge pact (like they always do). You are just trying to make the people blind, Victorious = Anarchy, they always masspact that's a fact, and no not with only 2 or 3 fams, but with loads of fams, more like pacts with 8 fams thats more Anarchy style.
you have trained your disciples well,they're doing the exact same things with you so don't worry :) your fam is still alive brother, just as your gaystyle :)
Anonymous (07:07:53 - 09-03)
Anonymous at 06:40:53 on 09/03:
Indeed, but not everyone is nolifer as you're to have more then "5%of ontime" or patience for this game to increase rf or whatevers. keep pressuring all we want to see is crew giving more akills!!!!
instead of 400players (if that much) lets play with 200 or less:D
Anonymous at 06:20:58 on 09/03:
Look at the big fams.
Al those 0-5% ontime acc. With 0rf 0hps 0msg.
Most of them are funding acc or dupes.
And both aren't allowed.
If admins really do their work we should see alot more Akills...
Look at the big fams.
Al those 0-5% ontime acc. With 0rf 0hps 0msg.
Most of them are funding acc or dupes.
And both aren't allowed.
If admins really do their work we should see alot more Akills...
Indeed, but not everyone is nolifer as you're to have more then "5%of ontime" or patience for this game to increase rf or whatevers. keep pressuring all we want to see is crew giving more akills!!!!
instead of 400players (if that much) lets play with 200 or less:D
Anonymous (06:40:53 - 09-03)
Anonymous at 06:20:58 on 09/03:
Look at the big fams.
Al those 0-5% ontime acc. With 0rf 0hps 0msg.
Most of them are funding acc or dupes.
And both aren't allowed.
If admins really do their work we should see alot more Akills...
Look at the big fams.
Al those 0-5% ontime acc. With 0rf 0hps 0msg.
Most of them are funding acc or dupes.
And both aren't allowed.
If admins really do their work we should see alot more Akills...
Indeed, but not everyone is nolifer as you're to have more then "5%of ontime" or patience for this game to increase rf or whatevers. keep pressuring all we want to see is crew giving more akills!!!!
instead of 400players (if that much) lets play with 200 or less:D
Anonymous (06:20:58 - 09-03)
Look at the big fams.
Al those 0-5% ontime acc. With 0rf 0hps 0msg.
Most of them are funding acc or dupes.
And both aren't allowed.
If admins really do their work we should see alot more Akills...
Al those 0-5% ontime acc. With 0rf 0hps 0msg.
Most of them are funding acc or dupes.
And both aren't allowed.
If admins really do their work we should see alot more Akills...
Anonymous (04:44:13 - 09-03)
darklazytologin at 20:49:52 on 08/03:
asddasdssadsdas we dont masspact we have a lot of old friends and they like playing with us and we show respect for them by blooding them i wont deny friends as bloods but victorious is a new fam and we definitely didnt merge with konin we made a NEW FAM and we have NEW bloods so not our usual 5 as1s and 8 bloods so please let victorious live and kill SIBERIA and COLOSSAL!! becuase they are pact not anarchy!! i mean victorious!! we are fuckin retired!!!!
Anonymous at 15:57:47 on 08/03:
Lol trying to do the same thing as last version, making propaganda on OB that Anarchy isn't masspacting. We all remember their words on OB, we never masspact, and what happened first war they showed the whole community they had created a huge pact (like they always do). You are just trying to make the people blind, Victorious = Anarchy, they always masspact that's a fact, and no not with only 2 or 3 fams, but with loads of fams, more like pacts with 8 fams thats more Anarchy style.
Anonymous at 04:25:47 on 08/03:
They have another pact with vexa but much weaker than siberia
Anonymous at 22:34:00 on 07/03:
You didnt include analchy/victorious so my bet is that you are either a top there or member who is trying to stir shit up.
Anonymous at 21:42:25 on 07/03:
Random fams? Siberia efes asones, savagery wolfspack bosphorus asones, aeterna lusa nazdroiva asones. And all blooded eachother.
Colossal and prophecy also blooded with those fams. So better fuck off...
Anonymous at 15:14:35 on 07/03:
Yes. list a bunch of random fams and viola; "pact" created
retardness never sleeps round this place.
Anonymous at 14:19:28 on 07/03:
add portucalia, savagery, wolfspack, efes, prophecy and nazdroiva into that pact.
11 fams in total. biggest pact ever :)
Anonymous at 06:15:09 on 07/03:
Siberia Aeterna Colossal Bosphorus Lusa
the pact will bang this round
Siberia Aeterna Colossal Bosphorus Lusa
the pact will bang this round
add portucalia, savagery, wolfspack, efes, prophecy and nazdroiva into that pact.
11 fams in total. biggest pact ever :)
retardness never sleeps round this place.
Colossal and prophecy also blooded with those fams. So better fuck off...
Lol trying to do the same thing as last version, making propaganda on OB that Anarchy isn't masspacting. We all remember their words on OB, we never masspact, and what happened first war they showed the whole community they had created a huge pact (like they always do). You are just trying to make the people blind, Victorious = Anarchy, they always masspact that's a fact, and no not with only 2 or 3 fams, but with loads of fams, more like pacts with 8 fams thats more Anarchy style.
most funny part is that you guys are trying to get fams on colossal/siberia claiming that they are masspacting when in fact you are doing it like always cause thats the only faggy way you guys know how to play and still fail like the last two versions.
tk3 (21:41:16 - 08-03)
Asabi at 21:30:39 on 08/03:
Actually except sarcasm what he is trying to say is kill anyone you wanna, we are not gonna give a fuck while we are retired :P
Anonymous at 21:18:39 on 08/03:
It's like listening to a broken record. "pls shoot Sib and colossal" We don't have a pact just a lot of old friends that are our bloods (aka pact)
bu hu hu
darklazytologin at 20:49:52 on 08/03:
asddasdssadsdas we dont masspact we have a lot of old friends and they like playing with us and we show respect for them by blooding them i wont deny friends as bloods but victorious is a new fam and we definitely didnt merge with konin we made a NEW FAM and we have NEW bloods so not our usual 5 as1s and 8 bloods so please let victorious live and kill SIBERIA and COLOSSAL!! becuase they are pact not anarchy!! i mean victorious!! we are fuckin retired!!!!
Anonymous at 15:57:47 on 08/03:
Lol trying to do the same thing as last version, making propaganda on OB that Anarchy isn't masspacting. We all remember their words on OB, we never masspact, and what happened first war they showed the whole community they had created a huge pact (like they always do). You are just trying to make the people blind, Victorious = Anarchy, they always masspact that's a fact, and no not with only 2 or 3 fams, but with loads of fams, more like pacts with 8 fams thats more Anarchy style.
Anonymous at 04:25:47 on 08/03:
They have another pact with vexa but much weaker than siberia
Anonymous at 22:34:00 on 07/03:
You didnt include analchy/victorious so my bet is that you are either a top there or member who is trying to stir shit up.
Anonymous at 21:42:25 on 07/03:
Random fams? Siberia efes asones, savagery wolfspack bosphorus asones, aeterna lusa nazdroiva asones. And all blooded eachother.
Colossal and prophecy also blooded with those fams. So better fuck off...
Anonymous at 15:14:35 on 07/03:
Yes. list a bunch of random fams and viola; "pact" created
retardness never sleeps round this place.
Anonymous at 14:19:28 on 07/03:
add portucalia, savagery, wolfspack, efes, prophecy and nazdroiva into that pact.
11 fams in total. biggest pact ever :)
Anonymous at 06:15:09 on 07/03:
Siberia Aeterna Colossal Bosphorus Lusa
the pact will bang this round
Siberia Aeterna Colossal Bosphorus Lusa
the pact will bang this round
add portucalia, savagery, wolfspack, efes, prophecy and nazdroiva into that pact.
11 fams in total. biggest pact ever :)
retardness never sleeps round this place.
Colossal and prophecy also blooded with those fams. So better fuck off...
Lol trying to do the same thing as last version, making propaganda on OB that Anarchy isn't masspacting. We all remember their words on OB, we never masspact, and what happened first war they showed the whole community they had created a huge pact (like they always do). You are just trying to make the people blind, Victorious = Anarchy, they always masspact that's a fact, and no not with only 2 or 3 fams, but with loads of fams, more like pacts with 8 fams thats more Anarchy style.
It's like listening to a broken record. "pls shoot Sib and colossal" We don't have a pact just a lot of old friends that are our bloods (aka pact)
bu hu hu
Actually except sarcasm what he is trying to say is kill anyone you wanna, we are not gonna give a fuck while we are retired :P
Anonymous at 21:18:39 on 08/03:
It's like listening to a broken record. "pls shoot Sib and colossal" We don't have a pact just a lot of old friends that are our bloods (aka pact)
bu hu hu
darklazytologin at 20:49:52 on 08/03:
asddasdssadsdas we dont masspact we have a lot of old friends and they like playing with us and we show respect for them by blooding them i wont deny friends as bloods but victorious is a new fam and we definitely didnt merge with konin we made a NEW FAM and we have NEW bloods so not our usual 5 as1s and 8 bloods so please let victorious live and kill SIBERIA and COLOSSAL!! becuase they are pact not anarchy!! i mean victorious!! we are fuckin retired!!!!
Anonymous at 15:57:47 on 08/03:
Lol trying to do the same thing as last version, making propaganda on OB that Anarchy isn't masspacting. We all remember their words on OB, we never masspact, and what happened first war they showed the whole community they had created a huge pact (like they always do). You are just trying to make the people blind, Victorious = Anarchy, they always masspact that's a fact, and no not with only 2 or 3 fams, but with loads of fams, more like pacts with 8 fams thats more Anarchy style.
Anonymous at 04:25:47 on 08/03:
They have another pact with vexa but much weaker than siberia
Anonymous at 22:34:00 on 07/03:
You didnt include analchy/victorious so my bet is that you are either a top there or member who is trying to stir shit up.
Anonymous at 21:42:25 on 07/03:
Random fams? Siberia efes asones, savagery wolfspack bosphorus asones, aeterna lusa nazdroiva asones. And all blooded eachother.
Colossal and prophecy also blooded with those fams. So better fuck off...
Anonymous at 15:14:35 on 07/03:
Yes. list a bunch of random fams and viola; "pact" created
retardness never sleeps round this place.
Anonymous at 14:19:28 on 07/03:
add portucalia, savagery, wolfspack, efes, prophecy and nazdroiva into that pact.
11 fams in total. biggest pact ever :)
Anonymous at 06:15:09 on 07/03:
Siberia Aeterna Colossal Bosphorus Lusa
the pact will bang this round
Siberia Aeterna Colossal Bosphorus Lusa
the pact will bang this round
add portucalia, savagery, wolfspack, efes, prophecy and nazdroiva into that pact.
11 fams in total. biggest pact ever :)
retardness never sleeps round this place.
Colossal and prophecy also blooded with those fams. So better fuck off...
Lol trying to do the same thing as last version, making propaganda on OB that Anarchy isn't masspacting. We all remember their words on OB, we never masspact, and what happened first war they showed the whole community they had created a huge pact (like they always do). You are just trying to make the people blind, Victorious = Anarchy, they always masspact that's a fact, and no not with only 2 or 3 fams, but with loads of fams, more like pacts with 8 fams thats more Anarchy style.
It's like listening to a broken record. "pls shoot Sib and colossal" We don't have a pact just a lot of old friends that are our bloods (aka pact)
bu hu hu
Actually except sarcasm what he is trying to say is kill anyone you wanna, we are not gonna give a fuck while we are retired :P
Anonymous (21:18:39 - 08-03)
darklazytologin at 20:49:52 on 08/03:
asddasdssadsdas we dont masspact we have a lot of old friends and they like playing with us and we show respect for them by blooding them i wont deny friends as bloods but victorious is a new fam and we definitely didnt merge with konin we made a NEW FAM and we have NEW bloods so not our usual 5 as1s and 8 bloods so please let victorious live and kill SIBERIA and COLOSSAL!! becuase they are pact not anarchy!! i mean victorious!! we are fuckin retired!!!!
Anonymous at 15:57:47 on 08/03:
Lol trying to do the same thing as last version, making propaganda on OB that Anarchy isn't masspacting. We all remember their words on OB, we never masspact, and what happened first war they showed the whole community they had created a huge pact (like they always do). You are just trying to make the people blind, Victorious = Anarchy, they always masspact that's a fact, and no not with only 2 or 3 fams, but with loads of fams, more like pacts with 8 fams thats more Anarchy style.
Anonymous at 04:25:47 on 08/03:
They have another pact with vexa but much weaker than siberia
Anonymous at 22:34:00 on 07/03:
You didnt include analchy/victorious so my bet is that you are either a top there or member who is trying to stir shit up.
Anonymous at 21:42:25 on 07/03:
Random fams? Siberia efes asones, savagery wolfspack bosphorus asones, aeterna lusa nazdroiva asones. And all blooded eachother.
Colossal and prophecy also blooded with those fams. So better fuck off...
Anonymous at 15:14:35 on 07/03:
Yes. list a bunch of random fams and viola; "pact" created
retardness never sleeps round this place.
Anonymous at 14:19:28 on 07/03:
add portucalia, savagery, wolfspack, efes, prophecy and nazdroiva into that pact.
11 fams in total. biggest pact ever :)
Anonymous at 06:15:09 on 07/03:
Siberia Aeterna Colossal Bosphorus Lusa
the pact will bang this round
Siberia Aeterna Colossal Bosphorus Lusa
the pact will bang this round
add portucalia, savagery, wolfspack, efes, prophecy and nazdroiva into that pact.
11 fams in total. biggest pact ever :)
retardness never sleeps round this place.
Colossal and prophecy also blooded with those fams. So better fuck off...
Lol trying to do the same thing as last version, making propaganda on OB that Anarchy isn't masspacting. We all remember their words on OB, we never masspact, and what happened first war they showed the whole community they had created a huge pact (like they always do). You are just trying to make the people blind, Victorious = Anarchy, they always masspact that's a fact, and no not with only 2 or 3 fams, but with loads of fams, more like pacts with 8 fams thats more Anarchy style.
It's like listening to a broken record. "pls shoot Sib and colossal" We don't have a pact just a lot of old friends that are our bloods (aka pact)
bu hu hu
darklazytologin (20:49:52 - 08-03)
Anonymous at 15:57:47 on 08/03:
Lol trying to do the same thing as last version, making propaganda on OB that Anarchy isn't masspacting. We all remember their words on OB, we never masspact, and what happened first war they showed the whole community they had created a huge pact (like they always do). You are just trying to make the people blind, Victorious = Anarchy, they always masspact that's a fact, and no not with only 2 or 3 fams, but with loads of fams, more like pacts with 8 fams thats more Anarchy style.
Anonymous at 04:25:47 on 08/03:
They have another pact with vexa but much weaker than siberia
Anonymous at 22:34:00 on 07/03:
You didnt include analchy/victorious so my bet is that you are either a top there or member who is trying to stir shit up.
Anonymous at 21:42:25 on 07/03:
Random fams? Siberia efes asones, savagery wolfspack bosphorus asones, aeterna lusa nazdroiva asones. And all blooded eachother.
Colossal and prophecy also blooded with those fams. So better fuck off...
Anonymous at 15:14:35 on 07/03:
Yes. list a bunch of random fams and viola; "pact" created
retardness never sleeps round this place.
Anonymous at 14:19:28 on 07/03:
add portucalia, savagery, wolfspack, efes, prophecy and nazdroiva into that pact.
11 fams in total. biggest pact ever :)
Anonymous at 06:15:09 on 07/03:
Siberia Aeterna Colossal Bosphorus Lusa
the pact will bang this round
Siberia Aeterna Colossal Bosphorus Lusa
the pact will bang this round
add portucalia, savagery, wolfspack, efes, prophecy and nazdroiva into that pact.
11 fams in total. biggest pact ever :)
retardness never sleeps round this place.
Colossal and prophecy also blooded with those fams. So better fuck off...
Lol trying to do the same thing as last version, making propaganda on OB that Anarchy isn't masspacting. We all remember their words on OB, we never masspact, and what happened first war they showed the whole community they had created a huge pact (like they always do). You are just trying to make the people blind, Victorious = Anarchy, they always masspact that's a fact, and no not with only 2 or 3 fams, but with loads of fams, more like pacts with 8 fams thats more Anarchy style.
siberia+aeterna/lusa+bosp+port+sava+efes+prop vs maraz+siyah, collosal +fortress def for other fams at saturday