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General Comments & Major Rumors section.
Everyone knows where this section is for, keep it clean from flaming and only posts in english are allowed.
Everyone knows where this section is for, keep it clean from flaming and only posts in english are allowed.
kerzakov (19:05:42 - 03-02)
holla at 18:21:16 on 03/02:
ur not nice
Anonymous at 18:09:52 on 03/02:
Ur so not funny.
holla at 18:00:29 on 03/02:
Syndrum&Laboratory+Yalta+Xzone+Purgatory+
Vengance+Bruinsma+Gelibolu+Turkuz+
Ygidos/Blacksea
VS
Conflict
tonight 19OT
Syndrum&Laboratory+Yalta+Xzone+Purgatory+
Vengance+Bruinsma+Gelibolu+Turkuz+
Ygidos/Blacksea
VS
Conflict
tonight 19OT
Ur so not funny.
ur not nice
+1
holla (18:21:16 - 03-02)
Anonymous at 18:09:52 on 03/02:
Ur so not funny.
holla at 18:00:29 on 03/02:
Syndrum&Laboratory+Yalta+Xzone+Purgatory+
Vengance+Bruinsma+Gelibolu+Turkuz+
Ygidos/Blacksea
VS
Conflict
tonight 19OT
Syndrum&Laboratory+Yalta+Xzone+Purgatory+
Vengance+Bruinsma+Gelibolu+Turkuz+
Ygidos/Blacksea
VS
Conflict
tonight 19OT
Ur so not funny.
ur not nice
Anonymous (18:09:52 - 03-02)
holla at 18:00:29 on 03/02:
Syndrum&Laboratory+Yalta+Xzone+Purgatory+
Vengance+Bruinsma+Gelibolu+Turkuz+
Ygidos/Blacksea
VS
Conflict
tonight 19OT
Syndrum&Laboratory+Yalta+Xzone+Purgatory+
Vengance+Bruinsma+Gelibolu+Turkuz+
Ygidos/Blacksea
VS
Conflict
tonight 19OT
Ur so not funny.
holla (18:00:29 - 03-02)
Syndrum&Laboratory+Yalta+Xzone+Purgatory+
Vengance+Bruinsma+Gelibolu+Turkuz+
Ygidos/Blacksea
VS
Conflict
tonight 19OT
Vengance+Bruinsma+Gelibolu+Turkuz+
Ygidos/Blacksea
VS
Conflict
tonight 19OT
zenga (17:38:44 - 03-02)
Anonymous at 14:09:55 on 03/02:
Besides you forgot to add conf's other bloods either. like as Aztec and Righelli.
Yalta and Hangover are also so close to Affi fams. which means the version is already over.
and i can tell you the next wars in an order :
conf co + vinci co shoots turkuz & yb
then
conf co + vinci co and more fams shoots lab/syndrum + correptio + purgatory
then
conflict +quirities + aztec + righelli + xzone + venture shoots maraz + kuro + carneglia + krays
then
vinci + liberta team + yalta + hangover shoots aztec and righelli
and version is over ;)
Besides you forgot to add conf's other bloods either. like as Aztec and Righelli.
Yalta and Hangover are also so close to Affi fams. which means the version is already over.
and i can tell you the next wars in an order :
conf co + vinci co shoots turkuz & yb
then
conf co + vinci co and more fams shoots lab/syndrum + correptio + purgatory
then
conflict +quirities + aztec + righelli + xzone + venture shoots maraz + kuro + carneglia + krays
then
vinci + liberta team + yalta + hangover shoots aztec and righelli
and version is over ;)
I'm not up to date, but I'm pretty sure that if this scenario would happen, and righelli gets shot, the version ain't over, as you state it :)
Anonymous at 13:14:22 on 03/02:
33.9% of all the brugs on 1 side is a retarded version.
Even if you manage to gather ALL of the others fams (which never ever ever happens, you should be lucky to get half of them, if that) you still have to shoot ~2:1.
Any half decent top would try to plan a war at-least 4-5:1 if they can manage, up to 7 to be safe.
If those 700 brugs are literally 1 giant group you might as well reset since that wont change the outcome. And the included fams would seriously need to reconsider their priorities. Winning isnt everything.
That said i don't believe in such a massive block since i think these giant groups have the tendency to implode due to arguments between 'the pact' etc but sofar this has to be the worst version known to date.
O and before people respond 'step up and do something about it!!':
Just because someone has an different opinion about your playing style doesn't mean he has to fix the fucked up situation you created.
You created it; You fix it. Or is it all about 'winning'?
Rix at 12:28:25 on 03/02:
This means 1382 brugs can be used against them, a ratio of about 1.95:1.
I'll leave the conclusions over this data to the rest of you.
This means 1382 brugs can be used against them, a ratio of about 1.95:1.
I'll leave the conclusions over this data to the rest of you.
33.9% of all the brugs on 1 side is a retarded version.
Even if you manage to gather ALL of the others fams (which never ever ever happens, you should be lucky to get half of them, if that) you still have to shoot ~2:1.
Any half decent top would try to plan a war at-least 4-5:1 if they can manage, up to 7 to be safe.
If those 700 brugs are literally 1 giant group you might as well reset since that wont change the outcome. And the included fams would seriously need to reconsider their priorities. Winning isnt everything.
That said i don't believe in such a massive block since i think these giant groups have the tendency to implode due to arguments between 'the pact' etc but sofar this has to be the worst version known to date.
O and before people respond 'step up and do something about it!!':
Just because someone has an different opinion about your playing style doesn't mean he has to fix the fucked up situation you created.
You created it; You fix it. Or is it all about 'winning'?
Hypocrites , for once in your life you couldn't manage to gangbang your enemies and you spend 50% of your time on this site bashing and bashing and creating illusions in your head and trying to plant them into other's head , you don't stop for a moment and consider that any of those fams who got killed made shitlouds of enemies in last version(s) due to same way of playing , same way as you're saying "is it all about winning" " where is the honor" , oh where was your honor before when you actually had the power , and no there is no pact ,differ from some last version tops who actually claimed in OB that some fams work close together and were in a good position , none of them considered themselves pact nor felt bad for their playstyle , but once someone treats them with same respect they show how hypocrites they are , and yeh i'd actually like you to consider being violent ingame while fams are still up instead of this nonsense in forums cuz its getting old .
I'll end it with "It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of nonviolence to cover impotence."
You can google who said that ofc .
Regards
Anonymous (15:13:37 - 03-02)
Anonymous at 13:14:22 on 03/02:
33.9% of all the brugs on 1 side is a retarded version.
Even if you manage to gather ALL of the others fams (which never ever ever happens, you should be lucky to get half of them, if that) you still have to shoot ~2:1.
Any half decent top would try to plan a war at-least 4-5:1 if they can manage, up to 7 to be safe.
If those 700 brugs are literally 1 giant group you might as well reset since that wont change the outcome. And the included fams would seriously need to reconsider their priorities. Winning isnt everything.
That said i don't believe in such a massive block since i think these giant groups have the tendency to implode due to arguments between 'the pact' etc but sofar this has to be the worst version known to date.
O and before people respond 'step up and do something about it!!':
Just because someone has an different opinion about your playing style doesn't mean he has to fix the fucked up situation you created.
You created it; You fix it. Or is it all about 'winning'?
Rix at 12:28:25 on 03/02:
This means 1382 brugs can be used against them, a ratio of about 1.95:1.
I'll leave the conclusions over this data to the rest of you.
This means 1382 brugs can be used against them, a ratio of about 1.95:1.
I'll leave the conclusions over this data to the rest of you.
33.9% of all the brugs on 1 side is a retarded version.
Even if you manage to gather ALL of the others fams (which never ever ever happens, you should be lucky to get half of them, if that) you still have to shoot ~2:1.
Any half decent top would try to plan a war at-least 4-5:1 if they can manage, up to 7 to be safe.
If those 700 brugs are literally 1 giant group you might as well reset since that wont change the outcome. And the included fams would seriously need to reconsider their priorities. Winning isnt everything.
That said i don't believe in such a massive block since i think these giant groups have the tendency to implode due to arguments between 'the pact' etc but sofar this has to be the worst version known to date.
O and before people respond 'step up and do something about it!!':
Just because someone has an different opinion about your playing style doesn't mean he has to fix the fucked up situation you created.
You created it; You fix it. Or is it all about 'winning'?
by calling this the worst version to date, you clearly started playing this version... or you have a very bad memory.
Anonymous (14:48:44 - 03-02)
Anonymous at 14:09:55 on 03/02:
Besides you forgot to add conf's other bloods either. like as Aztec and Righelli.
Yalta and Hangover are also so close to Affi fams. which means the version is already over.
and i can tell you the next wars in an order :
conf co + vinci co shoots turkuz & yb
then
conf co + vinci co and more fams shoots lab/syndrum + correptio + purgatory
then
conflict +quirities + aztec + righelli + xzone + venture shoots maraz + kuro + carneglia + krays
then
vinci + liberta team + yalta + hangover shoots aztec and righelli
and version is over ;)
Rix at 13:49:15 on 03/02:
Agree.
There is another fact by the way which may help the families thinking about attacking:
In all three wars we've had till now in this version, the attackers lost about half of the amount of brugs they needed to shot. If that's due to the high ratio's in those wars I don't know, but that would mean the shooters to shoot Conflict & co would lose about 350 brugs (about 1/3rd of all the brugs all the remaining families have together).
Anonymous at 13:14:22 on 03/02:
33.9% of all the brugs on 1 side is a retarded version.
Even if you manage to gather ALL of the others fams (which never ever ever happens, you should be lucky to get half of them, if that) you still have to shoot ~2:1.
Any half decent top would try to plan a war at-least 4-5:1 if they can manage, up to 7 to be safe.
If those 700 brugs are literally 1 giant group you might as well reset since that wont change the outcome. And the included fams would seriously need to reconsider their priorities. Winning isnt everything.
That said i don't believe in such a massive block since i think these giant groups have the tendency to implode due to arguments between 'the pact' etc but sofar this has to be the worst version known to date.
O and before people respond 'step up and do something about it!!':
Just because someone has an different opinion about your playing style doesn't mean he has to fix the fucked up situation you created.
You created it; You fix it. Or is it all about 'winning'?
Rix at 12:28:25 on 03/02:
This means 1382 brugs can be used against them, a ratio of about 1.95:1.
I'll leave the conclusions over this data to the rest of you.
This means 1382 brugs can be used against them, a ratio of about 1.95:1.
I'll leave the conclusions over this data to the rest of you.
33.9% of all the brugs on 1 side is a retarded version.
Even if you manage to gather ALL of the others fams (which never ever ever happens, you should be lucky to get half of them, if that) you still have to shoot ~2:1.
Any half decent top would try to plan a war at-least 4-5:1 if they can manage, up to 7 to be safe.
If those 700 brugs are literally 1 giant group you might as well reset since that wont change the outcome. And the included fams would seriously need to reconsider their priorities. Winning isnt everything.
That said i don't believe in such a massive block since i think these giant groups have the tendency to implode due to arguments between 'the pact' etc but sofar this has to be the worst version known to date.
O and before people respond 'step up and do something about it!!':
Just because someone has an different opinion about your playing style doesn't mean he has to fix the fucked up situation you created.
You created it; You fix it. Or is it all about 'winning'?
There is another fact by the way which may help the families thinking about attacking:
In all three wars we've had till now in this version, the attackers lost about half of the amount of brugs they needed to shot. If that's due to the high ratio's in those wars I don't know, but that would mean the shooters to shoot Conflict & co would lose about 350 brugs (about 1/3rd of all the brugs all the remaining families have together).
Besides you forgot to add conf's other bloods either. like as Aztec and Righelli.
Yalta and Hangover are also so close to Affi fams. which means the version is already over.
and i can tell you the next wars in an order :
conf co + vinci co shoots turkuz & yb
then
conf co + vinci co and more fams shoots lab/syndrum + correptio + purgatory
then
conflict +quirities + aztec + righelli + xzone + venture shoots maraz + kuro + carneglia + krays
then
vinci + liberta team + yalta + hangover shoots aztec and righelli
and version is over ;)
+ 1
Anonymous (14:09:55 - 03-02)
Rix at 13:49:15 on 03/02:
Agree.
There is another fact by the way which may help the families thinking about attacking:
In all three wars we've had till now in this version, the attackers lost about half of the amount of brugs they needed to shot. If that's due to the high ratio's in those wars I don't know, but that would mean the shooters to shoot Conflict & co would lose about 350 brugs (about 1/3rd of all the brugs all the remaining families have together).
Anonymous at 13:14:22 on 03/02:
33.9% of all the brugs on 1 side is a retarded version.
Even if you manage to gather ALL of the others fams (which never ever ever happens, you should be lucky to get half of them, if that) you still have to shoot ~2:1.
Any half decent top would try to plan a war at-least 4-5:1 if they can manage, up to 7 to be safe.
If those 700 brugs are literally 1 giant group you might as well reset since that wont change the outcome. And the included fams would seriously need to reconsider their priorities. Winning isnt everything.
That said i don't believe in such a massive block since i think these giant groups have the tendency to implode due to arguments between 'the pact' etc but sofar this has to be the worst version known to date.
O and before people respond 'step up and do something about it!!':
Just because someone has an different opinion about your playing style doesn't mean he has to fix the fucked up situation you created.
You created it; You fix it. Or is it all about 'winning'?
Rix at 12:28:25 on 03/02:
This means 1382 brugs can be used against them, a ratio of about 1.95:1.
I'll leave the conclusions over this data to the rest of you.
This means 1382 brugs can be used against them, a ratio of about 1.95:1.
I'll leave the conclusions over this data to the rest of you.
33.9% of all the brugs on 1 side is a retarded version.
Even if you manage to gather ALL of the others fams (which never ever ever happens, you should be lucky to get half of them, if that) you still have to shoot ~2:1.
Any half decent top would try to plan a war at-least 4-5:1 if they can manage, up to 7 to be safe.
If those 700 brugs are literally 1 giant group you might as well reset since that wont change the outcome. And the included fams would seriously need to reconsider their priorities. Winning isnt everything.
That said i don't believe in such a massive block since i think these giant groups have the tendency to implode due to arguments between 'the pact' etc but sofar this has to be the worst version known to date.
O and before people respond 'step up and do something about it!!':
Just because someone has an different opinion about your playing style doesn't mean he has to fix the fucked up situation you created.
You created it; You fix it. Or is it all about 'winning'?
There is another fact by the way which may help the families thinking about attacking:
In all three wars we've had till now in this version, the attackers lost about half of the amount of brugs they needed to shot. If that's due to the high ratio's in those wars I don't know, but that would mean the shooters to shoot Conflict & co would lose about 350 brugs (about 1/3rd of all the brugs all the remaining families have together).
Besides you forgot to add conf's other bloods either. like as Aztec and Righelli.
Yalta and Hangover are also so close to Affi fams. which means the version is already over.
and i can tell you the next wars in an order :
conf co + vinci co shoots turkuz & yb
then
conf co + vinci co and more fams shoots lab/syndrum + correptio + purgatory
then
conflict +quirities + aztec + righelli + xzone + venture shoots maraz + kuro + carneglia + krays
then
vinci + liberta team + yalta + hangover shoots aztec and righelli
and version is over ;)
Anonymous at 13:14:22 on 03/02:
33.9% of all the brugs on 1 side is a retarded version.
Even if you manage to gather ALL of the others fams (which never ever ever happens, you should be lucky to get half of them, if that) you still have to shoot ~2:1.
Any half decent top would try to plan a war at-least 4-5:1 if they can manage, up to 7 to be safe.
If those 700 brugs are literally 1 giant group you might as well reset since that wont change the outcome. And the included fams would seriously need to reconsider their priorities. Winning isnt everything.
That said i don't believe in such a massive block since i think these giant groups have the tendency to implode due to arguments between 'the pact' etc but sofar this has to be the worst version known to date.
O and before people respond 'step up and do something about it!!':
Just because someone has an different opinion about your playing style doesn't mean he has to fix the fucked up situation you created.
You created it; You fix it. Or is it all about 'winning'?
Rix at 12:28:25 on 03/02:
This means 1382 brugs can be used against them, a ratio of about 1.95:1.
I'll leave the conclusions over this data to the rest of you.
This means 1382 brugs can be used against them, a ratio of about 1.95:1.
I'll leave the conclusions over this data to the rest of you.
33.9% of all the brugs on 1 side is a retarded version.
Even if you manage to gather ALL of the others fams (which never ever ever happens, you should be lucky to get half of them, if that) you still have to shoot ~2:1.
Any half decent top would try to plan a war at-least 4-5:1 if they can manage, up to 7 to be safe.
If those 700 brugs are literally 1 giant group you might as well reset since that wont change the outcome. And the included fams would seriously need to reconsider their priorities. Winning isnt everything.
That said i don't believe in such a massive block since i think these giant groups have the tendency to implode due to arguments between 'the pact' etc but sofar this has to be the worst version known to date.
O and before people respond 'step up and do something about it!!':
Just because someone has an different opinion about your playing style doesn't mean he has to fix the fucked up situation you created.
You created it; You fix it. Or is it all about 'winning'?
There is another fact by the way which may help the families thinking about attacking:
In all three wars we've had till now in this version, the attackers lost about half of the amount of brugs they needed to shot. If that's due to the high ratio's in those wars I don't know, but that would mean the shooters to shoot Conflict & co would lose about 350 brugs (about 1/3rd of all the brugs all the remaining families have together).
ElMariachi at 13:15:47 on 03/02:
I've seen frozen accounts being killed ingame, the fact that you can't log in, doesn't mean others can't shoot you ... omerta logic ;D
zenga at 12:32:51 on 03/02:
"Death threats, invitations to cheat, inciting racial hatred, porn, advertising for other games, rape references etc will be banned straight away. We will start with a 3 day ban" ...
so if you suspect there are war plans made against you, call bramblerose a whoring cunt and you are safe for 3 days, no need to use holiday mode
"Death threats, invitations to cheat, inciting racial hatred, porn, advertising for other games, rape references etc will be banned straight away. We will start with a 3 day ban" ...
so if you suspect there are war plans made against you, call bramblerose a whoring cunt and you are safe for 3 days, no need to use holiday mode
I've seen frozen accounts being killed ingame, the fact that you can't log in, doesn't mean others can't shoot you ... omerta logic ;D
Ye its so lame. I died while being frozen when admins didn't like an article here. I was looking at text after text that i have been shot. Was also glined on irc , and my mails to feedback were answered a week later. GG omerta.
zenga at 12:32:51 on 03/02:
"Death threats, invitations to cheat, inciting racial hatred, porn, advertising for other games, rape references etc will be banned straight away. We will start with a 3 day ban" ...
so if you suspect there are war plans made against you, call bramblerose a whoring cunt and you are safe for 3 days, no need to use holiday mode
"Death threats, invitations to cheat, inciting racial hatred, porn, advertising for other games, rape references etc will be banned straight away. We will start with a 3 day ban" ...
so if you suspect there are war plans made against you, call bramblerose a whoring cunt and you are safe for 3 days, no need to use holiday mode
I've seen frozen accounts being killed ingame, the fact that you can't log in, doesn't mean others can't shoot you ... omerta logic ;D
Anonymous (13:14:22 - 03-02)
Rix at 12:28:25 on 03/02:
This means 1382 brugs can be used against them, a ratio of about 1.95:1.
I'll leave the conclusions over this data to the rest of you.
This means 1382 brugs can be used against them, a ratio of about 1.95:1.
I'll leave the conclusions over this data to the rest of you.
33.9% of all the brugs on 1 side is a retarded version.
Even if you manage to gather ALL of the others fams (which never ever ever happens, you should be lucky to get half of them, if that) you still have to shoot ~2:1.
Any half decent top would try to plan a war at-least 4-5:1 if they can manage, up to 7 to be safe.
If those 700 brugs are literally 1 giant group you might as well reset since that wont change the outcome. And the included fams would seriously need to reconsider their priorities. Winning isnt everything.
That said i don't believe in such a massive block since i think these giant groups have the tendency to implode due to arguments between 'the pact' etc but sofar this has to be the worst version known to date.
O and before people respond 'step up and do something about it!!':
Just because someone has an different opinion about your playing style doesn't mean he has to fix the fucked up situation you created.
You created it; You fix it. Or is it all about 'winning'?
Anonymous at 12:52:56 on 03/02:
that was nice work, thx Rix. But why idd you count marazzino?
Rix at 12:28:25 on 03/02:
Let's do the math, shall we?
I defined "conf co." as Vincitori and all their bloods they have on the family page. This gives the following 10 families:
Conflict, Gravano, Liberta, Tremps, Guantanamo, Marangello, Quirites, Equites, Venture and of course Vincitori itself.
Totally they have:
81 swins - 100 assa's - 135 lc's - 160 chiefs - 709 brugs - 0 cd's - 10 gf's - 12056 points
According to our live famstats, there are a total of 2063 brugs in families and 28 without, giving 2091 in this game total.
Because "conf. co" has 709 brugs out of those, they have about 33.9% of the brugs in the game.
This means 1382 brugs can be used against them, a ratio of about 1.95:1.
I'll leave the conclusions over this data to the rest of you.
Anonymous at 09:21:53 on 03/02:
conf co. closed the version. reset!!
conf co. closed the version. reset!!
I defined "conf co." as Vincitori and all their bloods they have on the family page. This gives the following 10 families:
Conflict, Gravano, Liberta, Tremps, Guantanamo, Marangello, Quirites, Equites, Venture and of course Vincitori itself.
Totally they have:
81 swins - 100 assa's - 135 lc's - 160 chiefs - 709 brugs - 0 cd's - 10 gf's - 12056 points
According to our live famstats, there are a total of 2063 brugs in families and 28 without, giving 2091 in this game total.
Because "conf. co" has 709 brugs out of those, they have about 33.9% of the brugs in the game.
This means 1382 brugs can be used against them, a ratio of about 1.95:1.
I'll leave the conclusions over this data to the rest of you.
that was nice work, thx Rix. But why idd you count marazzino?
you think all these remaining fams can plan a decent war? no way!
Anonymous (12:52:56 - 03-02)
Rix at 12:28:25 on 03/02:
Let's do the math, shall we?
I defined "conf co." as Vincitori and all their bloods they have on the family page. This gives the following 10 families:
Conflict, Gravano, Liberta, Tremps, Guantanamo, Marangello, Quirites, Equites, Venture and of course Vincitori itself.
Totally they have:
81 swins - 100 assa's - 135 lc's - 160 chiefs - 709 brugs - 0 cd's - 10 gf's - 12056 points
According to our live famstats, there are a total of 2063 brugs in families and 28 without, giving 2091 in this game total.
Because "conf. co" has 709 brugs out of those, they have about 33.9% of the brugs in the game.
This means 1382 brugs can be used against them, a ratio of about 1.95:1.
I'll leave the conclusions over this data to the rest of you.
Anonymous at 09:21:53 on 03/02:
conf co. closed the version. reset!!
conf co. closed the version. reset!!
I defined "conf co." as Vincitori and all their bloods they have on the family page. This gives the following 10 families:
Conflict, Gravano, Liberta, Tremps, Guantanamo, Marangello, Quirites, Equites, Venture and of course Vincitori itself.
Totally they have:
81 swins - 100 assa's - 135 lc's - 160 chiefs - 709 brugs - 0 cd's - 10 gf's - 12056 points
According to our live famstats, there are a total of 2063 brugs in families and 28 without, giving 2091 in this game total.
Because "conf. co" has 709 brugs out of those, they have about 33.9% of the brugs in the game.
This means 1382 brugs can be used against them, a ratio of about 1.95:1.
I'll leave the conclusions over this data to the rest of you.
that was nice work, thx Rix. But why idd you count marazzino?
zenga (12:32:51 - 03-02)
"Death threats, invitations to cheat, inciting racial hatred, porn, advertising for other games, rape references etc will be banned straight away. We will start with a 3 day ban" ...
so if you suspect there are war plans made against you, call bramblerose a whoring cunt and you are safe for 3 days, no need to use holiday mode
so if you suspect there are war plans made against you, call bramblerose a whoring cunt and you are safe for 3 days, no need to use holiday mode
conf co. closed the version. reset!!
I defined "conf co." as Vincitori and all their bloods they have on the family page. This gives the following 10 families:
Conflict, Gravano, Liberta, Tremps, Guantanamo, Marangello, Quirites, Equites, Venture and of course Vincitori itself.
Totally they have:
81 swins - 100 assa's - 135 lc's - 160 chiefs - 709 brugs - 0 cd's - 10 gf's - 12056 points
According to our live famstats, there are a total of 2063 brugs in families and 28 without, giving 2091 in this game total.
Because "conf. co" has 709 brugs out of those, they have about 33.9% of the brugs in the game.
This means 1382 brugs can be used against them, a ratio of about 1.95:1.
I'll leave the conclusions over this data to the rest of you.
therre's something u forget rix .. KS ! they will all die in BF !