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General Comments & Major Rumors section.
Everyone knows where this section is for, keep it clean from flaming and only posts in english are allowed.
Everyone knows where this section is for, keep it clean from flaming and only posts in english are allowed.
Anonymous (18:20:17 - 01-09)
Anonymous at 18:16:51 on 01/09:
wtf are they doing that top 10fams?
wtf are they doing that top 10fams?
Dude only noob fams left what u expect? They all account huggers
FlowzZ (17:44:40 - 01-09)
Anonymous at 17:38:51 on 01/09:
The dutch are not dummies,(this sounds stupid) but they built windmills before anyone even had a clue what they do (is what the whole world is doing now), oh btw, they dont need an army, is what money is for. Attack dutch land and see what happens in the end :p
Most Muslims choose 5984594 different paths, and make confusion, so they choose to "live by the sword, die by the sword" style
The dutch are not dummies,(this sounds stupid) but they built windmills before anyone even had a clue what they do (is what the whole world is doing now), oh btw, they dont need an army, is what money is for. Attack dutch land and see what happens in the end :p
Most Muslims choose 5984594 different paths, and make confusion, so they choose to "live by the sword, die by the sword" style
thats where u ruined your post , but u were doing well
Anonymous (17:44:15 - 01-09)
Anonymous at 17:34:08 on 01/09:
true Krays trying to make some little plans
true Krays trying to make some little plans
To die?
Anonymous (17:38:51 - 01-09)
Anonymous at 17:15:31 on 01/09:
i don't remember a big Dutch Empire.they were just barbarians and after that they go to sea and make some trade deals.oh forgive me have they gotten a real army? :P
Duh at 16:57:04 on 01/09:
Quite easy really, people get annoyed because you keep talking about your "ottoman" empire.. you never see Dutch guys boasting about the Dutch empire, or the English guys about the English empire.. and so on it's always just turks bragging about their ottoman empire.
Anonymous at 16:18:34 on 01/09:
you miss the point Crusade invasion had never succeeded after Turkish made a real Stade.in 20's Greeks Britania Empire Italians and so many gay pact country tried tı defat us but they could take the Anatolia.we are proud of our great history everytime.i just don't understand why every non Turkish players hate Turkish player.i am opposite the racism.i that's all.
Anonymous at 16:00:08 on 01/09:
Ottoman Empire doesn't excist anymore and never
Ottoman empire doesn't excist anymore and these statements (from both sides) make absolutely no sence. You don't have to get along to just respect eachothers oppinion or gamestyle. Just play your own game...
I always think it's a bit awkward to see Turkish people pay so much respect to Ottoman while they got exiled by their own people in the '20's. Don't you think Turkey is a country as it is now because of not being part of Ottoman?
Ottoman Empire doesn't excist anymore and never
Anonymous at 15:46:08 on 01/09:
ottoman empire started in 1299 do you know any crusade invasion after that?and before Crusade sometimes succeded on weak some arabic states, some Turkish clan (little country) and mostly fucked chirist Byzantine :D but the most important thing is gay pact is in your blood ;) you crowded people _I_
Anonymous at 15:16:32 on 01/09:
A short history lesson, the following are all christian crusades. Invading the Turkish/Ottoman/Byzantine empire:
First Crusade 1095–1099
Norwegian Crusade 1107–1110
Second Crusade 1147–1149
Third Crusade 1187–1192
Fourth Crusade 1202–1204
Albigensian Crusade
Children's Crusade
Fifth Crusade 1217–1221
Sixth Crusade 1228–1229
Seventh Crusade 1248–1254
Eighth Crusade 1270
Ninth Crusade 1271–1272
Sorry to shatter your dreams kid.
Anonymous at 10:06:01 on 01/09:
and this type racist act only can remind me your grandpas were raped by Turkish Soliders irl real wars not in cyber world :) btw you lick maraz's ass in the game and they are Turkish fam.go fuck yourself now :w
and this type racist act only can remind me your grandpas were raped by Turkish Soliders irl real wars not in cyber world :) btw you lick maraz's ass in the game and they are Turkish fam.go fuck yourself now :w
A short history lesson, the following are all christian crusades. Invading the Turkish/Ottoman/Byzantine empire:
First Crusade 1095–1099
Norwegian Crusade 1107–1110
Second Crusade 1147–1149
Third Crusade 1187–1192
Fourth Crusade 1202–1204
Albigensian Crusade
Children's Crusade
Fifth Crusade 1217–1221
Sixth Crusade 1228–1229
Seventh Crusade 1248–1254
Eighth Crusade 1270
Ninth Crusade 1271–1272
Sorry to shatter your dreams kid.
Ottoman empire doesn't excist anymore and these statements (from both sides) make absolutely no sence. You don't have to get along to just respect eachothers oppinion or gamestyle. Just play your own game...
I always think it's a bit awkward to see Turkish people pay so much respect to Ottoman while they got exiled by their own people in the '20's. Don't you think Turkey is a country as it is now because of not being part of Ottoman?
you miss the point Crusade invasion had never succeeded after Turkish made a real Stade.in 20's Greeks Britania Empire Italians and so many gay pact country tried tı defat us but they could take the Anatolia.we are proud of our great history everytime.i just don't understand why every non Turkish players hate Turkish player.i am opposite the racism.i that's all.
Quite easy really, people get annoyed because you keep talking about your "ottoman" empire.. you never see Dutch guys boasting about the Dutch empire, or the English guys about the English empire.. and so on it's always just turks bragging about their ottoman empire.
i don't remember a big Dutch Empire.they were just barbarians and after that they go to sea and make some trade deals.oh forgive me have they gotten a real army? :P
The dutch are not dummies,(this sounds stupid) but they built windmills before anyone even had a clue what they do (is what the whole world is doing now), oh btw, they dont need an army, is what money is for. Attack dutch land and see what happens in the end :p
Most Muslims choose 5984594 different paths, and make confusion, so they choose to "live by the sword, die by the sword" style
Anonymous (17:21:09 - 01-09)
Anonymous at 17:09:21 on 01/09:
Tempest heard krays/maraz is making plans. They are calling their bloods for a attack my tops say we going to shoot tonight :D
Tempest heard krays/maraz is making plans. They are calling their bloods for a attack my tops say we going to shoot tonight :D
my tops asked me to stay online tonight, when i asked if we shooting krays she just smiled :)
Anonymous (17:19:30 - 01-09)
Anonymous at 14:20:53 on 01/09:
You should thanks Provenzano for the version
You should thanks Provenzano for the version
+1
Anonymous (17:15:31 - 01-09)
Duh at 16:57:04 on 01/09:
Quite easy really, people get annoyed because you keep talking about your "ottoman" empire.. you never see Dutch guys boasting about the Dutch empire, or the English guys about the English empire.. and so on it's always just turks bragging about their ottoman empire.
Anonymous at 16:18:34 on 01/09:
you miss the point Crusade invasion had never succeeded after Turkish made a real Stade.in 20's Greeks Britania Empire Italians and so many gay pact country tried tı defat us but they could take the Anatolia.we are proud of our great history everytime.i just don't understand why every non Turkish players hate Turkish player.i am opposite the racism.i that's all.
Anonymous at 16:00:08 on 01/09:
Ottoman Empire doesn't excist anymore and never
Ottoman empire doesn't excist anymore and these statements (from both sides) make absolutely no sence. You don't have to get along to just respect eachothers oppinion or gamestyle. Just play your own game...
I always think it's a bit awkward to see Turkish people pay so much respect to Ottoman while they got exiled by their own people in the '20's. Don't you think Turkey is a country as it is now because of not being part of Ottoman?
Ottoman Empire doesn't excist anymore and never
Anonymous at 15:46:08 on 01/09:
ottoman empire started in 1299 do you know any crusade invasion after that?and before Crusade sometimes succeded on weak some arabic states, some Turkish clan (little country) and mostly fucked chirist Byzantine :D but the most important thing is gay pact is in your blood ;) you crowded people _I_
Anonymous at 15:16:32 on 01/09:
A short history lesson, the following are all christian crusades. Invading the Turkish/Ottoman/Byzantine empire:
First Crusade 1095–1099
Norwegian Crusade 1107–1110
Second Crusade 1147–1149
Third Crusade 1187–1192
Fourth Crusade 1202–1204
Albigensian Crusade
Children's Crusade
Fifth Crusade 1217–1221
Sixth Crusade 1228–1229
Seventh Crusade 1248–1254
Eighth Crusade 1270
Ninth Crusade 1271–1272
Sorry to shatter your dreams kid.
Anonymous at 10:06:01 on 01/09:
and this type racist act only can remind me your grandpas were raped by Turkish Soliders irl real wars not in cyber world :) btw you lick maraz's ass in the game and they are Turkish fam.go fuck yourself now :w
and this type racist act only can remind me your grandpas were raped by Turkish Soliders irl real wars not in cyber world :) btw you lick maraz's ass in the game and they are Turkish fam.go fuck yourself now :w
A short history lesson, the following are all christian crusades. Invading the Turkish/Ottoman/Byzantine empire:
First Crusade 1095–1099
Norwegian Crusade 1107–1110
Second Crusade 1147–1149
Third Crusade 1187–1192
Fourth Crusade 1202–1204
Albigensian Crusade
Children's Crusade
Fifth Crusade 1217–1221
Sixth Crusade 1228–1229
Seventh Crusade 1248–1254
Eighth Crusade 1270
Ninth Crusade 1271–1272
Sorry to shatter your dreams kid.
Ottoman empire doesn't excist anymore and these statements (from both sides) make absolutely no sence. You don't have to get along to just respect eachothers oppinion or gamestyle. Just play your own game...
I always think it's a bit awkward to see Turkish people pay so much respect to Ottoman while they got exiled by their own people in the '20's. Don't you think Turkey is a country as it is now because of not being part of Ottoman?
you miss the point Crusade invasion had never succeeded after Turkish made a real Stade.in 20's Greeks Britania Empire Italians and so many gay pact country tried tı defat us but they could take the Anatolia.we are proud of our great history everytime.i just don't understand why every non Turkish players hate Turkish player.i am opposite the racism.i that's all.
Quite easy really, people get annoyed because you keep talking about your "ottoman" empire.. you never see Dutch guys boasting about the Dutch empire, or the English guys about the English empire.. and so on it's always just turks bragging about their ottoman empire.
i don't remember a big Dutch Empire.they were just barbarians and after that they go to sea and make some trade deals.oh forgive me have they gotten a real army? :P
Anonymous (17:09:21 - 01-09)
Tempest heard krays/maraz is making plans. They are calling their bloods for a attack my tops say we going to shoot tonight :D
Duh (16:57:04 - 01-09)
Anonymous at 16:18:34 on 01/09:
you miss the point Crusade invasion had never succeeded after Turkish made a real Stade.in 20's Greeks Britania Empire Italians and so many gay pact country tried tı defat us but they could take the Anatolia.we are proud of our great history everytime.i just don't understand why every non Turkish players hate Turkish player.i am opposite the racism.i that's all.
Anonymous at 16:00:08 on 01/09:
Ottoman Empire doesn't excist anymore and never
Ottoman empire doesn't excist anymore and these statements (from both sides) make absolutely no sence. You don't have to get along to just respect eachothers oppinion or gamestyle. Just play your own game...
I always think it's a bit awkward to see Turkish people pay so much respect to Ottoman while they got exiled by their own people in the '20's. Don't you think Turkey is a country as it is now because of not being part of Ottoman?
Ottoman Empire doesn't excist anymore and never
Anonymous at 15:46:08 on 01/09:
ottoman empire started in 1299 do you know any crusade invasion after that?and before Crusade sometimes succeded on weak some arabic states, some Turkish clan (little country) and mostly fucked chirist Byzantine :D but the most important thing is gay pact is in your blood ;) you crowded people _I_
Anonymous at 15:16:32 on 01/09:
A short history lesson, the following are all christian crusades. Invading the Turkish/Ottoman/Byzantine empire:
First Crusade 1095–1099
Norwegian Crusade 1107–1110
Second Crusade 1147–1149
Third Crusade 1187–1192
Fourth Crusade 1202–1204
Albigensian Crusade
Children's Crusade
Fifth Crusade 1217–1221
Sixth Crusade 1228–1229
Seventh Crusade 1248–1254
Eighth Crusade 1270
Ninth Crusade 1271–1272
Sorry to shatter your dreams kid.
Anonymous at 10:06:01 on 01/09:
and this type racist act only can remind me your grandpas were raped by Turkish Soliders irl real wars not in cyber world :) btw you lick maraz's ass in the game and they are Turkish fam.go fuck yourself now :w
and this type racist act only can remind me your grandpas were raped by Turkish Soliders irl real wars not in cyber world :) btw you lick maraz's ass in the game and they are Turkish fam.go fuck yourself now :w
A short history lesson, the following are all christian crusades. Invading the Turkish/Ottoman/Byzantine empire:
First Crusade 1095–1099
Norwegian Crusade 1107–1110
Second Crusade 1147–1149
Third Crusade 1187–1192
Fourth Crusade 1202–1204
Albigensian Crusade
Children's Crusade
Fifth Crusade 1217–1221
Sixth Crusade 1228–1229
Seventh Crusade 1248–1254
Eighth Crusade 1270
Ninth Crusade 1271–1272
Sorry to shatter your dreams kid.
Ottoman empire doesn't excist anymore and these statements (from both sides) make absolutely no sence. You don't have to get along to just respect eachothers oppinion or gamestyle. Just play your own game...
I always think it's a bit awkward to see Turkish people pay so much respect to Ottoman while they got exiled by their own people in the '20's. Don't you think Turkey is a country as it is now because of not being part of Ottoman?
you miss the point Crusade invasion had never succeeded after Turkish made a real Stade.in 20's Greeks Britania Empire Italians and so many gay pact country tried tı defat us but they could take the Anatolia.we are proud of our great history everytime.i just don't understand why every non Turkish players hate Turkish player.i am opposite the racism.i that's all.
Quite easy really, people get annoyed because you keep talking about your "ottoman" empire.. you never see Dutch guys boasting about the Dutch empire, or the English guys about the English empire.. and so on it's always just turks bragging about their ottoman empire.
Anonymous (16:21:44 - 01-09)
ps. i want to turn back the game after those fucking racist actions.
ps2: if you don't like Turkish players don't become blood with them you idiots.
:w
ps2: if you don't like Turkish players don't become blood with them you idiots.
:w
Anonymous (16:18:34 - 01-09)
Anonymous at 16:00:08 on 01/09:
Ottoman Empire doesn't excist anymore and never
Ottoman empire doesn't excist anymore and these statements (from both sides) make absolutely no sence. You don't have to get along to just respect eachothers oppinion or gamestyle. Just play your own game...
I always think it's a bit awkward to see Turkish people pay so much respect to Ottoman while they got exiled by their own people in the '20's. Don't you think Turkey is a country as it is now because of not being part of Ottoman?
Ottoman Empire doesn't excist anymore and never
Anonymous at 15:46:08 on 01/09:
ottoman empire started in 1299 do you know any crusade invasion after that?and before Crusade sometimes succeded on weak some arabic states, some Turkish clan (little country) and mostly fucked chirist Byzantine :D but the most important thing is gay pact is in your blood ;) you crowded people _I_
Anonymous at 15:16:32 on 01/09:
A short history lesson, the following are all christian crusades. Invading the Turkish/Ottoman/Byzantine empire:
First Crusade 1095–1099
Norwegian Crusade 1107–1110
Second Crusade 1147–1149
Third Crusade 1187–1192
Fourth Crusade 1202–1204
Albigensian Crusade
Children's Crusade
Fifth Crusade 1217–1221
Sixth Crusade 1228–1229
Seventh Crusade 1248–1254
Eighth Crusade 1270
Ninth Crusade 1271–1272
Sorry to shatter your dreams kid.
Anonymous at 10:06:01 on 01/09:
and this type racist act only can remind me your grandpas were raped by Turkish Soliders irl real wars not in cyber world :) btw you lick maraz's ass in the game and they are Turkish fam.go fuck yourself now :w
and this type racist act only can remind me your grandpas were raped by Turkish Soliders irl real wars not in cyber world :) btw you lick maraz's ass in the game and they are Turkish fam.go fuck yourself now :w
A short history lesson, the following are all christian crusades. Invading the Turkish/Ottoman/Byzantine empire:
First Crusade 1095–1099
Norwegian Crusade 1107–1110
Second Crusade 1147–1149
Third Crusade 1187–1192
Fourth Crusade 1202–1204
Albigensian Crusade
Children's Crusade
Fifth Crusade 1217–1221
Sixth Crusade 1228–1229
Seventh Crusade 1248–1254
Eighth Crusade 1270
Ninth Crusade 1271–1272
Sorry to shatter your dreams kid.
Ottoman empire doesn't excist anymore and these statements (from both sides) make absolutely no sence. You don't have to get along to just respect eachothers oppinion or gamestyle. Just play your own game...
I always think it's a bit awkward to see Turkish people pay so much respect to Ottoman while they got exiled by their own people in the '20's. Don't you think Turkey is a country as it is now because of not being part of Ottoman?
you miss the point Crusade invasion had never succeeded after Turkish made a real Stade.in 20's Greeks Britania Empire Italians and so many gay pact country tried tı defat us but they could take the Anatolia.we are proud of our great history everytime.i just don't understand why every non Turkish players hate Turkish player.i am opposite the racism.i that's all.
Anonymous (16:14:42 - 01-09)
Anonymous at 16:00:08 on 01/09:
Ottoman Empire doesn't excist anymore and never
Ottoman empire doesn't excist anymore and these statements (from both sides) make absolutely no sence. You don't have to get along to just respect eachothers oppinion or gamestyle. Just play your own game...
I always think it's a bit awkward to see Turkish people pay so much respect to Ottoman while they got exiled by their own people in the '20's. Don't you think Turkey is a country as it is now because of not being part of Ottoman?
Ottoman Empire doesn't excist anymore and never
Anonymous at 15:46:08 on 01/09:
ottoman empire started in 1299 do you know any crusade invasion after that?and before Crusade sometimes succeded on weak some arabic states, some Turkish clan (little country) and mostly fucked chirist Byzantine :D but the most important thing is gay pact is in your blood ;) you crowded people _I_
Anonymous at 15:16:32 on 01/09:
A short history lesson, the following are all christian crusades. Invading the Turkish/Ottoman/Byzantine empire:
First Crusade 1095–1099
Norwegian Crusade 1107–1110
Second Crusade 1147–1149
Third Crusade 1187–1192
Fourth Crusade 1202–1204
Albigensian Crusade
Children's Crusade
Fifth Crusade 1217–1221
Sixth Crusade 1228–1229
Seventh Crusade 1248–1254
Eighth Crusade 1270
Ninth Crusade 1271–1272
Sorry to shatter your dreams kid.
Anonymous at 10:06:01 on 01/09:
and this type racist act only can remind me your grandpas were raped by Turkish Soliders irl real wars not in cyber world :) btw you lick maraz's ass in the game and they are Turkish fam.go fuck yourself now :w
and this type racist act only can remind me your grandpas were raped by Turkish Soliders irl real wars not in cyber world :) btw you lick maraz's ass in the game and they are Turkish fam.go fuck yourself now :w
A short history lesson, the following are all christian crusades. Invading the Turkish/Ottoman/Byzantine empire:
First Crusade 1095–1099
Norwegian Crusade 1107–1110
Second Crusade 1147–1149
Third Crusade 1187–1192
Fourth Crusade 1202–1204
Albigensian Crusade
Children's Crusade
Fifth Crusade 1217–1221
Sixth Crusade 1228–1229
Seventh Crusade 1248–1254
Eighth Crusade 1270
Ninth Crusade 1271–1272
Sorry to shatter your dreams kid.
Ottoman empire doesn't excist anymore and these statements (from both sides) make absolutely no sence. You don't have to get along to just respect eachothers oppinion or gamestyle. Just play your own game...
I always think it's a bit awkward to see Turkish people pay so much respect to Ottoman while they got exiled by their own people in the '20's. Don't you think Turkey is a country as it is now because of not being part of Ottoman?
you guys look like kucking children. stop agruing about nonsense. history is history and is not your words that is going to change anything. if u dont like the way some dude plays just ignore it and be superior. this is a game not a life or dead situation.
You guys are RL noob.
Anonymous (16:00:08 - 01-09)
Ottoman Empire doesn't excist anymore and never
Ottoman empire doesn't excist anymore and these statements (from both sides) make absolutely no sence. You don't have to get along to just respect eachothers oppinion or gamestyle. Just play your own game...
I always think it's a bit awkward to see Turkish people pay so much respect to Ottoman while they got exiled by their own people in the '20's. Don't you think Turkey is a country as it is now because of not being part of Ottoman?
Anonymous at 15:46:08 on 01/09:
ottoman empire started in 1299 do you know any crusade invasion after that?and before Crusade sometimes succeded on weak some arabic states, some Turkish clan (little country) and mostly fucked chirist Byzantine :D but the most important thing is gay pact is in your blood ;) you crowded people _I_
Anonymous at 15:16:32 on 01/09:
A short history lesson, the following are all christian crusades. Invading the Turkish/Ottoman/Byzantine empire:
First Crusade 1095–1099
Norwegian Crusade 1107–1110
Second Crusade 1147–1149
Third Crusade 1187–1192
Fourth Crusade 1202–1204
Albigensian Crusade
Children's Crusade
Fifth Crusade 1217–1221
Sixth Crusade 1228–1229
Seventh Crusade 1248–1254
Eighth Crusade 1270
Ninth Crusade 1271–1272
Sorry to shatter your dreams kid.
Anonymous at 10:06:01 on 01/09:
and this type racist act only can remind me your grandpas were raped by Turkish Soliders irl real wars not in cyber world :) btw you lick maraz's ass in the game and they are Turkish fam.go fuck yourself now :w
and this type racist act only can remind me your grandpas were raped by Turkish Soliders irl real wars not in cyber world :) btw you lick maraz's ass in the game and they are Turkish fam.go fuck yourself now :w
A short history lesson, the following are all christian crusades. Invading the Turkish/Ottoman/Byzantine empire:
First Crusade 1095–1099
Norwegian Crusade 1107–1110
Second Crusade 1147–1149
Third Crusade 1187–1192
Fourth Crusade 1202–1204
Albigensian Crusade
Children's Crusade
Fifth Crusade 1217–1221
Sixth Crusade 1228–1229
Seventh Crusade 1248–1254
Eighth Crusade 1270
Ninth Crusade 1271–1272
Sorry to shatter your dreams kid.
Ottoman empire doesn't excist anymore and these statements (from both sides) make absolutely no sence. You don't have to get along to just respect eachothers oppinion or gamestyle. Just play your own game...
I always think it's a bit awkward to see Turkish people pay so much respect to Ottoman while they got exiled by their own people in the '20's. Don't you think Turkey is a country as it is now because of not being part of Ottoman?
FlowzZ (15:48:09 - 01-09)
im happy to see how this site often transforms into a history forum when theres nothing left to talk about the game
Anonymous (15:46:08 - 01-09)
Anonymous at 15:16:32 on 01/09:
A short history lesson, the following are all christian crusades. Invading the Turkish/Ottoman/Byzantine empire:
First Crusade 1095–1099
Norwegian Crusade 1107–1110
Second Crusade 1147–1149
Third Crusade 1187–1192
Fourth Crusade 1202–1204
Albigensian Crusade
Children's Crusade
Fifth Crusade 1217–1221
Sixth Crusade 1228–1229
Seventh Crusade 1248–1254
Eighth Crusade 1270
Ninth Crusade 1271–1272
Sorry to shatter your dreams kid.
Anonymous at 10:06:01 on 01/09:
and this type racist act only can remind me your grandpas were raped by Turkish Soliders irl real wars not in cyber world :) btw you lick maraz's ass in the game and they are Turkish fam.go fuck yourself now :w
and this type racist act only can remind me your grandpas were raped by Turkish Soliders irl real wars not in cyber world :) btw you lick maraz's ass in the game and they are Turkish fam.go fuck yourself now :w
A short history lesson, the following are all christian crusades. Invading the Turkish/Ottoman/Byzantine empire:
First Crusade 1095–1099
Norwegian Crusade 1107–1110
Second Crusade 1147–1149
Third Crusade 1187–1192
Fourth Crusade 1202–1204
Albigensian Crusade
Children's Crusade
Fifth Crusade 1217–1221
Sixth Crusade 1228–1229
Seventh Crusade 1248–1254
Eighth Crusade 1270
Ninth Crusade 1271–1272
Sorry to shatter your dreams kid.
Johnny (15:27:51 - 01-09)
klassikl at 15:21:33 on 01/09:
Goddamit, Johnny ruining all the fun for other players again?! What a douche..
Goddamit, Johnny ruining all the fun for other players again?! What a douche..
haha fo
Dude I saw your group in CL... RIP :')
wtf are they doing that top 10fams?
Dude only noob fams left what u expect? They all account huggers
Noobest fams are still alive start shooting huggers.... you guys are a disgrace