counsie <3

Rofl, well that may be, but you're the one that sounds butthurt, not Presidential ;)
-Spy

Well, Presidential already had a decent core group of players when they started.
It wasnt just a 2 brug fam, it was a fam with a decent core group and tops who have experiance in the game. Not just some random noobs.
They grew out to be big in the end but that was because they had the guts to shoot when they were not this big, although they were never a small and deffonately not an inexperianced fam, new, yes, inexperianced and/or small, no.

But that's mainly because every sane player has stopped playing this version right ?

+1

Tbh, the funny part I've been seeing this version in general and (especially) in the last few weeks is the ease by which fams sell their bloods who have done so much for them and that some families expect not to get shot by others when they kill their bloods because they are 'friendly' to eachother.

1) I've seen a lot of posts about Tempestuoso getting shot by an overwelming force and Gambino not helping them, I found this an highly interesting move because, Tempestuoso has been there for Gambino all version.
I must commend them (Tempestuoso) on the fact that they've been a terrific blood to Gambino but somehow Gambino did not think to reward their close and helpfull blood by helping them back when they needed it most, quite possibly because they were to afraid.
I think they'll slap themselves on the back of the head now they've been sold by Leviticus, because now they've lost not 1 but 2 'loyal' bloods in a short period of time.

2) As we've seen the last couple of days Gambino got shot and nobody really helped them, what is it with this version and not helping your bloods out, even if it does means dying ?
Yes, they might have 'earned it' because when their close blood was in need, they also didn't do anything. But a blood is a blood and you help bloods out, that's what you're bloods for.
I think people have lost sight what the meaning of A Blood is, they think bloods are just tools to use for their best interest when they feel like it.
In my oppinion this is not the case however, bloods means you help eachother out as much as possible nomatter what, even if that means dying.

3) I also found it highly interesting how Leviticus sold their blood Gambino, they had been playing together all version, taking down several big families, going down (together) and comming back up (together) and now Gambino gets shot by Levi's blood(s).
These blood(s) wouldn't have shot without Leviticus' permission, as far as I've heard, the reason for Gambino's demise was that they did not want to help the shooting families (and Leviticus) in a version-closing war / cleanup.

4) What was also interesting to see is how ASFU (and I think with them a great many other families) thought that they can just be friends in a game with some families, and then shoot their (closest) bloods and not get fired back upon.
The game has been moving in this direction (friends letting other friends kill their bloods and not doing anything) a lot more and that's wrong.
Ofcourse you should not let your Friends shoot your Bloods and let them get away with it, it is a mistery to me why (some) families think they should and/or could get away with something like that and even find the ordasity to complain to these 'friends' that they shot at them.
You can be friends and shoot/play together, but never let your friends kill your bloods and let them get away with it.

Just my 2 cents.
-Spy

meh :-/

The fact that you dont see 'proper' tops whine about Andalusia is not so much credited to the fact that you, Andalusia, do so much good (or bad, whatever you wanna call a lot of shooting) in the game.
But it's more credit to these tops because they are proper and dont post things on an open forum but keep things where they belong, in a top channel, pm or privately started channel with other tops.


You're forgetting that in each war there are also people who fail to kill and people who fail to bf kill.
There are also such things as preshoots.


It's not the number of brugs/highranks you should be looking at but the number of brugs/highranks such a coalition of families can bring online at one given time.

You can have a family of 500 brugs, but if you can only get 3 online at any given time you still can't do anything.

Fact is, offline accounts are (still) stronger then online accounts and thus even though you have around the same amount of people online as the other has, offline, you can not start a war for the simple reason that the ones sleeping, or being offline, are stronger then your onliners. And you need to calculate that some of these players will come online after being shot at (sms). You need more people and thus mostly, more fams to shoot at your oponent.

Ingame family values don't rly say a lot imo, a family can have a really high value but can still not be able to bring people online to actually do anything.

Usualy these are the fams that just sit still all version with a lot of lackey acc's who come online 3 times a day to buy 3k bullets or something, if they do this for long enough, yes they will have more bullets then others who actually shoot, or these are families that shoot 3 targets in wars they know they'll be safe in. But family rank is also based on more then just bullets and lowranks also play a part in it and thus it's unreliable.

As for OB stats, they're a little more helpfull because they grade highranks more then lowranks, but dont count bullets. But they are often flawed due to akills or family name changes and other reasons (nothing I blame you for OB, it's just a fact though). And you cant see who can be brought online at what time in any of these stats.

Yes this 'gangbang' as you call it, is still a 'fact' but I have just explained why this 'gangbang' was not actually that bad and tbh, I think the numbers on this 'gangbang' of yours are not that bad as many gangbangs before this one.

Furthermore 'gangbangs' have been happening for a long time now and I dont see why people feel the need to express their displeasure at them, it happened, feel happy that people thought they couldnt take you down by themselves with just 2 families or whatever amount.


This was indeed also one of my interests in this war, Tempest has done a lot (in the past and) in this version for Gambino and I was wondering what Gambino was going to do for Tempest in this war.
I think it's very interesting to see Gambino didn't do anything and I wonder if Tempest told them to stay out or wether they (Gambino) just did not want to join in to this war. Only time will tell I guess ^^
(as you see, I'm not bashing any fam here)


Though Redspeert and me have our differences, I think he's perfectly capable and allowed to post his opinion on this site just as you and others are, even though he is an admin/news writer.
He is just as you and me, a person and is thus allowed to express his oppinion, note however that he is not doing so in his articles, or atleast in a way lesser way, but in the discussion between people on this site in the area where discussion is allowed.

[01:50:50] <&Tibz> i'm more Harry Potter than LOTR
Jus sayin...

Now now now Donalo dont b hatin ;)
Let us know when you need another succesor btw ^^
-Spy

I
<3
Tibz

Sinbad, come on irc and we'll talk about it, in pm, or a private channel where a 'fight' between tops, yes tops, should take place. Not in an open forum.
To Redspeert, I could have seen this one comming, a baby will cry ofcourse ^^ :w.
To the anonymous haters, I dont rly give a crap what you say or think. My family (atleast the important part) knows who/what I am and what I do/did for the fam.
-Spy

Rofl, what's with the rediculous statements ?
Ofc you wont know me, there's a lot of people that do not know me.
That does not make the truthfullness of my statements any less though.
I bet you also dont know a lot of other people that play this game... What's the point ?:')
Anyway, doesnt matter this is my last post for tday, I'm out havin a drink with my mates o/
-Spy

About me personally, I will not talk for Dark or Diezsel.

I'm a top in Vinci and when we decided we werent gnna go back up again this version.
I joined Presi where I had a lot of friends (in the top) and worked my way up the ranks there and was eventually invited to topchan.

That's 2 fams that shot at/were shot by the most fams and were included in most wars this version, so I already did something and I'm not just bladie bladie bla.

I dont rly understand why I'm dignifieng your statement with an answer but, oh well ^^
Dont talk bs unless you have some facts to state mr anonymous pussy ;)
-Spy

Tbh, yes, Ilimitada hug their accounts. They've been doing nothing but safe wars all version, same goes for Xzone & Traffi.

Imo uptill now they've just played it 'smart', not making themselves a target and making sure they always help their bloods, but in a minimal way. This way, you keep your bloods happy, you keep yourself alive and you can grow to be stronger and keep ur bullets.

It's a way to play, I'm not saying it's my way of playing nor am I saying it's a good or a bad way to play.

A little while ago, I saw a msg posted on here, it was a crew msg written by Cocain and it said something about Ili 'winning the version'.

I dont know who you are, or where you're from, nor do I care. I just wanted to say, that is the most retarded thing I've heard in a while.

You would concider yourself to be version winners while all you did was hang back and shoot minimal targets in safe ways/wars, and ontop of that expect others to think of you as version winners 2 ? You've gotta be kidding me.

Like I said, I am not criticizing the way you play, just stating how you play and what your aims are, but if you do want to win a version, the style you're playing in currently wont do the trick. You would have to change game-style.

See, winning a version is not just about who's up the longest or who is still up when the reset is announced.
It's about Shooting for your bloods when they're in a difficult situation, not just safely but just go all out.
It's about rebuilding, it's about perseverance, it's about being your own side, not tagging along with others, staying true to your own beliefs.
Ofcourse being up when a reset is announced is PART of winning and mostly version winners ARE the ones who are still up when a reset is announced but that is not what DEFINES a version winner.

For me the version winner this round would be a hard choice to make, there have not been a lot of shooting families all version.
My vote would go to: Vaffanculo, Presidential, Righelli, Leviticus or Gambino, and out of those: Righelli & Leviticus in particular because they're (still/again) up and doing (decently) good.

Then as a last thing I would like to add that I do NOT concider Ilimitada, Trafficante, Xzone, Hellsangels or Samagono the 'biggest pussies' of this version.
I think that prize is for Blacksea, they have been in howmany alliances ? 3 / 4 ?
And at the moment that alliance started shooting, or they made a deal to shoot, Blacksea would step out of the alliance and not do shit, screwing over their alliance fam(s).
The last time this happened was quite recent, with Turkuz just comming back up out of the dust, they jumped for their bloods (according to Turkuz top Blacksea even agreed to shoot and they was in warchan and all) and Blacksea did nothing while they were an alliance.

Just my 2 cents ^^
-Spy

When you killed Presidential, it was pretty safe yes, you opened fire on Vaffanculo with a lot of families, knowing bloods couldnt retaliate at that moment.
And even if we (Presi) would, all families attacking Vaffa had targets in Presi to take out, if we attacked, dets were already pre-hired on us and we knew it.
Furthermore, Presidential and bloods had no reason (other then that you were joining in on the shooting at our blood) to shoot you and a lot more reason to shoot other families like ASFU for things that had happened in the (recent) past, you also knew that.
So yes, you knew you would very likely be safe.

Same goes for Carneglia war, who would ever focus on you when there were worse relations to other families amungst Carneglia's bloods, for instance, almost everyone went on DIG, Levi and Gaybino, ofcourse everyone knew upfront this would happen, you included.
Except for maybe Infra, who must have surprised you guys for aiming at you.
But Infra you could handle, as they were not THAT big. (no disrespect towards Infra in any way, you guys rock)

And, ofcourse I did not mean that 'ALL' of your accounts in Catacomb got Akilled because that way the family wouldnt have existed for very long now would it ?
But what I meant to say, and you could have read that into what I said if you had payed attention, a lot did get Akilled, basicly 75 % of your highranks in Catacomb were continuesly Akilled.

So in short, yes, almost every war you joined, you were on the safe side, relations between shooter and defender fams were always worse with other fams then you and you knew you would most likely not be targeted in any war you were in.

That so many accounts still live since the start of this version just shows how safe you play things.
They would have been long dead if you had chosen a more active game-style.

Notice however that I am still NOT saying the style you played in is in any way wrong or bad.
I am merely stating the way you play and that you should not over-glorify the way you do play, you chose your game, now stick to it.

-Spy

Way I see it, all wars Xzone jumped in are 'safe' wars :).
Ten (10) fams (or something like it) were already shootin at the fams they was shooting at or had no way to go up against a large fam as Xzone.

And Xzone also knew it would have a very tiney little chance of being hit by a blood of the fam it attacked when it did join in on any war.

Ferthermore I hardly concider Catacomb Xzone, Catacomb was a weird smallass fam which got Akilled completely once every 2 weeks.

I dont blame Xzone for playing the way they do, I'm also not saying it's a bad way to play.
Just dont 'over-glorify' yourself/them, pick your way of playing and stick to it.

-Spy

I'm not gnna quote that huge quote list below.
But I am gnna respond to it.

Does it matter who kills who anymore ? DIG's pretty much screwed.
They have what ? One strong acc with bullets left ? The rest are 99% (bulletless) weak lackey acc's.

Naz are pretty much dead, they knew they would be before they even started this war.
Liberta are pretty much dead, they also knew upfront.

I'd say DIG won this battle, but lost the war ?

What's it matter who's in SH and who aint ? Not like they're big players in the game anymore :).

Get on with it, decide the version.
Have some fun rest of the families.

-Spy

Kill Algorithm:
Rix, I like what you mean, but pre-shooting is out of the question in the current KA, atleast as far as I've seen...
17k at an offline target means you'll get bf killed and your bullets will not hit, nor will your opponent lose any bg's

Kill Skill:
I'm pleased they're bringing KS back in a way where you will need to kill or injure another player.
They should however add something that makes sure families dont go 'farming' KS by letting brugs shoot eachother with low ammounts of bullets & no bf on.
So you shouldnt get KS for shooting someone in your own family/who was in your family in the last... 24/48 hours or maybe even in your friends list.

Shooting limits:
Not rly any comment on this...

Capodecina rank:
CD rank should be returned for top3 and capo's, they should be slightly stronger then Brugs but they should not have a huge advantage and should not in any situation be as strong as a GF.
GF should become a more exclusive rank.

Family System:
Spots system, maybe it should be more expensive to buy these spots though.
But Spot wars ROCK.

Lackeys:
Lackeys should be removed, it ruins the game, promotes inactivity ingame aswell as on irc and it makes a million diffo targets to shoot, now there is even a bullet lackey even people who come online for 5 minutes every day can easilly BF Kill.
Even if online is stronger then offline. The account is bound to come online if his fam starts a war, if he/she has by that time gained like 600k bullets by not doing anything... he/she will be a killing machine without ever doing anything for it.
But asmuch as we plead, lackeys will not be removed, Omerta's proffit went up by about 250 to 300 % after lackey's were introduced.
They will not change this as it's just making Brando 2much money. Even when scripts are gone, Brando will claim they're either still there or they will be needed for some other reason according to him.

Bodyguards:
The current bodyguards system is a good one, it brings diversity/dynamic into the game, maybe you should have a couple more BG's available though.

Other changes or remarks:
Remove Poker:
Poker should be removed or 'privatized' sothat families make something out of it or objects start making money again.
Since the introduction of Poker, objects have been making less and less and families are struggling to give their members the aid they need, thus either poker needs to be privatized meaning it would become another object or removed.
-Spy

Does it matter ? I doubt it's such a big surprise :)
Imo, surprise is Traffi doing anything as when there's 2 bloods involved they normally stay out :)
-Spy