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General Comments & Major Rumors section.
Everyone knows where this section is for, keep it clean from flaming and only posts in english are allowed.
Everyone knows where this section is for, keep it clean from flaming and only posts in english are allowed.
Nappey (19:31:53 - 10-07)
Deston (19:15:28 - 10-07)
Nappey at 22:49:22 on 09/07:
josephc :*
that was exactly the point i was trying to make
if you want a competetive acc, you need to use the service called lackeys..
so how many are using these? 80%? 90% of the players??
and we all know you can buy this service from obay and you wont pay rl money, but someone else bought it with his rl money..
point is 80-90% of the players are paying to use this service, then it's hardly donating anymore is it?
i wish i knew who the hell is still buying those dc's though, such fool(s) :D
Josephc at 21:35:32 on 09/07:
I think it's irrelevant that an individual can get dc's without spending any of their own real money. The fact is that real money is being exchanged for the dc in the first place. That person is either receiving the competitive advantage of using lackeys or they're receiving the competitive advantage of whatever ingame money that dc is worth on obay. Either way it goes against the idea of "donating" to the game/community.
Deston at 21:00:08 on 09/07:
But you can get dc's without investing a single penny of your real money. All it takes is some time and knowledge of the game and you can get on from obay. Yes, for ingame money they are (ridiculously?) expensive. If you don't like that then don't get them. If you don't use the crime lackey, you can easily earn a new dc with 5000 credits. Simple as that.
But you can get dc's without investing a single penny of your real money. All it takes is some time and knowledge of the game and you can get on from obay. Yes, for ingame money they are (ridiculously?) expensive. If you don't like that then don't get them. If you don't use the crime lackey, you can easily earn a new dc with 5000 credits. Simple as that.
I think it's irrelevant that an individual can get dc's without spending any of their own real money. The fact is that real money is being exchanged for the dc in the first place. That person is either receiving the competitive advantage of using lackeys or they're receiving the competitive advantage of whatever ingame money that dc is worth on obay. Either way it goes against the idea of "donating" to the game/community.
josephc :*
that was exactly the point i was trying to make
if you want a competetive acc, you need to use the service called lackeys..
so how many are using these? 80%? 90% of the players??
and we all know you can buy this service from obay and you wont pay rl money, but someone else bought it with his rl money..
point is 80-90% of the players are paying to use this service, then it's hardly donating anymore is it?
i wish i knew who the hell is still buying those dc's though, such fool(s) :D
boesmans (19:00:01 - 10-07)
Octavello at 18:42:22 on 10/07:
Here's the problem I see with removing Sluggs. It would defeat the entire purpose of Lackeys. How can you make a script that does not buy bullets? If they are going to continue down the path of Lackeys, they have to make it at least somewhat functional. Otherwise, people go back to using a script.
So, if you are asking for them to remove Sluggs, you might as well begin asking for them to remove Lackeys. Do you think they plan on doing that?
So, go ahead and protest if you want. But figure out exactly what you want to get out of it.
boesmans at 18:06:42 on 10/07:
REMOVE SLUGGS MOTHERFUCKERS
Anonymous at 18:04:45 on 10/07:
what u ask from admins to do?
Anonymous at 17:44:31 on 10/07:
We are gathering all famillies for a strike plan.
Please all tops who didnt do yet join #we.stand.united on irc for more information,
short overview about the plans and why:
we go on strike with all fams or atleast most of them
why?
well look back past 2 months..
* lack of communication
* implanted bulletlackey while we didnt want it... we agreed for a test time.. they would get back to us with a review...never happend.
* omerta hack past week.. we heard NOTHING, all we know is from non official channels like beyond and the hacker himself. huge fail from omerta..and help stated we wont get statement ...
reasons enough to stand up together
how we go on strike
several things :
* stop buying DCs
* stop lackey from running
* close objects
* stop recruiting
* make love NO wars...so no wars...
as u can see for the things to go on strike we need a wide support from most fams.
THE MORE FAMS JOIN THE BETTER STATEMENT WE MAKE!
u wanna know how animo in your familiy is at members?
Make a VOTD for the fam and do a cm that people have to vote!
We only have a chance of success when all/most fams join!
so join #we.stand.united on irc for more info
Thanks
Several Families who are in allready!
We are gathering all famillies for a strike plan.
Please all tops who didnt do yet join #we.stand.united on irc for more information,
short overview about the plans and why:
we go on strike with all fams or atleast most of them
why?
well look back past 2 months..
* lack of communication
* implanted bulletlackey while we didnt want it... we agreed for a test time.. they would get back to us with a review...never happend.
* omerta hack past week.. we heard NOTHING, all we know is from non official channels like beyond and the hacker himself. huge fail from omerta..and help stated we wont get statement ...
reasons enough to stand up together
how we go on strike
several things :
* stop buying DCs
* stop lackey from running
* close objects
* stop recruiting
* make love NO wars...so no wars...
as u can see for the things to go on strike we need a wide support from most fams.
THE MORE FAMS JOIN THE BETTER STATEMENT WE MAKE!
u wanna know how animo in your familiy is at members?
Make a VOTD for the fam and do a cm that people have to vote!
We only have a chance of success when all/most fams join!
so join #we.stand.united on irc for more info
Thanks
Several Families who are in allready!
REMOVE SLUGGS MOTHERFUCKERS
So, if you are asking for them to remove Sluggs, you might as well begin asking for them to remove Lackeys. Do you think they plan on doing that?
So, go ahead and protest if you want. But figure out exactly what you want to get out of it.
Octavello (18:42:22 - 10-07)
boesmans at 18:06:42 on 10/07:
REMOVE SLUGGS MOTHERFUCKERS
Anonymous at 18:04:45 on 10/07:
what u ask from admins to do?
Anonymous at 17:44:31 on 10/07:
We are gathering all famillies for a strike plan.
Please all tops who didnt do yet join #we.stand.united on irc for more information,
short overview about the plans and why:
we go on strike with all fams or atleast most of them
why?
well look back past 2 months..
* lack of communication
* implanted bulletlackey while we didnt want it... we agreed for a test time.. they would get back to us with a review...never happend.
* omerta hack past week.. we heard NOTHING, all we know is from non official channels like beyond and the hacker himself. huge fail from omerta..and help stated we wont get statement ...
reasons enough to stand up together
how we go on strike
several things :
* stop buying DCs
* stop lackey from running
* close objects
* stop recruiting
* make love NO wars...so no wars...
as u can see for the things to go on strike we need a wide support from most fams.
THE MORE FAMS JOIN THE BETTER STATEMENT WE MAKE!
u wanna know how animo in your familiy is at members?
Make a VOTD for the fam and do a cm that people have to vote!
We only have a chance of success when all/most fams join!
so join #we.stand.united on irc for more info
Thanks
Several Families who are in allready!
We are gathering all famillies for a strike plan.
Please all tops who didnt do yet join #we.stand.united on irc for more information,
short overview about the plans and why:
we go on strike with all fams or atleast most of them
why?
well look back past 2 months..
* lack of communication
* implanted bulletlackey while we didnt want it... we agreed for a test time.. they would get back to us with a review...never happend.
* omerta hack past week.. we heard NOTHING, all we know is from non official channels like beyond and the hacker himself. huge fail from omerta..and help stated we wont get statement ...
reasons enough to stand up together
how we go on strike
several things :
* stop buying DCs
* stop lackey from running
* close objects
* stop recruiting
* make love NO wars...so no wars...
as u can see for the things to go on strike we need a wide support from most fams.
THE MORE FAMS JOIN THE BETTER STATEMENT WE MAKE!
u wanna know how animo in your familiy is at members?
Make a VOTD for the fam and do a cm that people have to vote!
We only have a chance of success when all/most fams join!
so join #we.stand.united on irc for more info
Thanks
Several Families who are in allready!
REMOVE SLUGGS MOTHERFUCKERS
So, if you are asking for them to remove Sluggs, you might as well begin asking for them to remove Lackeys. Do you think they plan on doing that?
So, go ahead and protest if you want. But figure out exactly what you want to get out of it.
boesmans (18:06:42 - 10-07)
Anonymous at 18:04:45 on 10/07:
what u ask from admins to do?
Anonymous at 17:44:31 on 10/07:
We are gathering all famillies for a strike plan.
Please all tops who didnt do yet join #we.stand.united on irc for more information,
short overview about the plans and why:
we go on strike with all fams or atleast most of them
why?
well look back past 2 months..
* lack of communication
* implanted bulletlackey while we didnt want it... we agreed for a test time.. they would get back to us with a review...never happend.
* omerta hack past week.. we heard NOTHING, all we know is from non official channels like beyond and the hacker himself. huge fail from omerta..and help stated we wont get statement ...
reasons enough to stand up together
how we go on strike
several things :
* stop buying DCs
* stop lackey from running
* close objects
* stop recruiting
* make love NO wars...so no wars...
as u can see for the things to go on strike we need a wide support from most fams.
THE MORE FAMS JOIN THE BETTER STATEMENT WE MAKE!
u wanna know how animo in your familiy is at members?
Make a VOTD for the fam and do a cm that people have to vote!
We only have a chance of success when all/most fams join!
so join #we.stand.united on irc for more info
Thanks
Several Families who are in allready!
We are gathering all famillies for a strike plan.
Please all tops who didnt do yet join #we.stand.united on irc for more information,
short overview about the plans and why:
we go on strike with all fams or atleast most of them
why?
well look back past 2 months..
* lack of communication
* implanted bulletlackey while we didnt want it... we agreed for a test time.. they would get back to us with a review...never happend.
* omerta hack past week.. we heard NOTHING, all we know is from non official channels like beyond and the hacker himself. huge fail from omerta..and help stated we wont get statement ...
reasons enough to stand up together
how we go on strike
several things :
* stop buying DCs
* stop lackey from running
* close objects
* stop recruiting
* make love NO wars...so no wars...
as u can see for the things to go on strike we need a wide support from most fams.
THE MORE FAMS JOIN THE BETTER STATEMENT WE MAKE!
u wanna know how animo in your familiy is at members?
Make a VOTD for the fam and do a cm that people have to vote!
We only have a chance of success when all/most fams join!
so join #we.stand.united on irc for more info
Thanks
Several Families who are in allready!
REMOVE SLUGGS MOTHERFUCKERS
Anonymous (18:04:45 - 10-07)
Anonymous at 17:44:31 on 10/07:
We are gathering all famillies for a strike plan.
Please all tops who didnt do yet join #we.stand.united on irc for more information,
short overview about the plans and why:
we go on strike with all fams or atleast most of them
why?
well look back past 2 months..
* lack of communication
* implanted bulletlackey while we didnt want it... we agreed for a test time.. they would get back to us with a review...never happend.
* omerta hack past week.. we heard NOTHING, all we know is from non official channels like beyond and the hacker himself. huge fail from omerta..and help stated we wont get statement ...
reasons enough to stand up together
how we go on strike
several things :
* stop buying DCs
* stop lackey from running
* close objects
* stop recruiting
* make love NO wars...so no wars...
as u can see for the things to go on strike we need a wide support from most fams.
THE MORE FAMS JOIN THE BETTER STATEMENT WE MAKE!
u wanna know how animo in your familiy is at members?
Make a VOTD for the fam and do a cm that people have to vote!
We only have a chance of success when all/most fams join!
so join #we.stand.united on irc for more info
Thanks
Several Families who are in allready!
We are gathering all famillies for a strike plan.
Please all tops who didnt do yet join #we.stand.united on irc for more information,
short overview about the plans and why:
we go on strike with all fams or atleast most of them
why?
well look back past 2 months..
* lack of communication
* implanted bulletlackey while we didnt want it... we agreed for a test time.. they would get back to us with a review...never happend.
* omerta hack past week.. we heard NOTHING, all we know is from non official channels like beyond and the hacker himself. huge fail from omerta..and help stated we wont get statement ...
reasons enough to stand up together
how we go on strike
several things :
* stop buying DCs
* stop lackey from running
* close objects
* stop recruiting
* make love NO wars...so no wars...
as u can see for the things to go on strike we need a wide support from most fams.
THE MORE FAMS JOIN THE BETTER STATEMENT WE MAKE!
u wanna know how animo in your familiy is at members?
Make a VOTD for the fam and do a cm that people have to vote!
We only have a chance of success when all/most fams join!
so join #we.stand.united on irc for more info
Thanks
Several Families who are in allready!
Anonymous (17:44:31 - 10-07)
We are gathering all famillies for a strike plan.
Please all tops who didnt do yet join #we.stand.united on irc for more information,
short overview about the plans and why:
we go on strike with all fams or atleast most of them
why?
well look back past 2 months..
* lack of communication
* implanted bulletlackey while we didnt want it... we agreed for a test time.. they would get back to us with a review...never happend.
* omerta hack past week.. we heard NOTHING, all we know is from non official channels like beyond and the hacker himself. huge fail from omerta..and help stated we wont get statement ...
reasons enough to stand up together
how we go on strike
several things :
* stop buying DCs
* stop lackey from running
* close objects
* stop recruiting
* make love NO wars...so no wars...
as u can see for the things to go on strike we need a wide support from most fams.
THE MORE FAMS JOIN THE BETTER STATEMENT WE MAKE!
u wanna know how animo in your familiy is at members?
Make a VOTD for the fam and do a cm that people have to vote!
We only have a chance of success when all/most fams join!
so join #we.stand.united on irc for more info
Thanks
Several Families who are in allready!
Please all tops who didnt do yet join #we.stand.united on irc for more information,
short overview about the plans and why:
we go on strike with all fams or atleast most of them
why?
well look back past 2 months..
* lack of communication
* implanted bulletlackey while we didnt want it... we agreed for a test time.. they would get back to us with a review...never happend.
* omerta hack past week.. we heard NOTHING, all we know is from non official channels like beyond and the hacker himself. huge fail from omerta..and help stated we wont get statement ...
reasons enough to stand up together
how we go on strike
several things :
* stop buying DCs
* stop lackey from running
* close objects
* stop recruiting
* make love NO wars...so no wars...
as u can see for the things to go on strike we need a wide support from most fams.
THE MORE FAMS JOIN THE BETTER STATEMENT WE MAKE!
u wanna know how animo in your familiy is at members?
Make a VOTD for the fam and do a cm that people have to vote!
We only have a chance of success when all/most fams join!
so join #we.stand.united on irc for more info
Thanks
Several Families who are in allready!
blabla (17:05:48 - 10-07)
Anonymous at 18:54:09 on 09/07:
You're wrong. Leviticus is mostly in Camorra right now, waiting for Samurai alliance's death :')
Anonymous at 08:47:41 on 09/07:
levi is already back but they dont dare to namechange..
come one Marghita fam change into Levi, everyone knows :)
levi is already back but they dont dare to namechange..
come one Marghita fam change into Levi, everyone knows :)
You're wrong. Leviticus is mostly in Camorra right now, waiting for Samurai alliance's death :')
then they will have to wait :')
Rix (11:03:01 - 10-07)
Stodder at 10:30:23 on 10/07:
Yeah, it's people like her that's giving coke sluts a bad name.
Smokey at 08:59:39 on 10/07:
What else can one expect from a psycho unstable coke slut?
What else can one expect from a psycho unstable coke slut?
Yeah, it's people like her that's giving coke sluts a bad name.
Stodder (10:30:23 - 10-07)
Smokey at 08:59:39 on 10/07:
What else can one expect from a psycho unstable coke slut?
What else can one expect from a psycho unstable coke slut?
Yeah, it's people like her that's giving coke sluts a bad name.
Smokey (08:59:39 - 10-07)
Anonymous at 22:39:45 on 09/07:
what a lame act from old top I would never shoot my own fam.
Revolucion at 22:37:11 on 09/07:
It's an old nuevitas top/member that is shooting with her dupes... because she doesnt want us to start Nuevitas, while there are enough old nuevitas top in the current family.
Anonymous at 22:33:52 on 09/07:
Some of firenza's did I think...
Anonymous at 22:31:02 on 09/07:
which fam changed their name to Nuevitas? And who shooting/defending to Nuevitas?
Don't sleep ppl xd
which fam changed their name to Nuevitas? And who shooting/defending to Nuevitas?
Don't sleep ppl xd
Some of firenza's did I think...
It's an old nuevitas top/member that is shooting with her dupes... because she doesnt want us to start Nuevitas, while there are enough old nuevitas top in the current family.
what a lame act from old top I would never shoot my own fam.
What else can one expect from a psycho unstable coke slut?
Blue (06:03:14 - 10-07)
Zina its that time o the month for you eh? You are finished here never come back you fat cunt..
Anonymous (05:18:04 - 10-07)
Guests: 12
Even now there are some people who are here xd C'mon go sleep at least I'm gonna do that right now gn to you aye xd
Even now there are some people who are here xd C'mon go sleep at least I'm gonna do that right now gn to you aye xd
Octavello (03:42:37 - 10-07)
boesmans at 00:11:19 on 10/07:
i bought a dc from someone on irc today, told me he had 25 more dc's for sale if i wanted more
Nappey at 22:49:22 on 09/07:
josephc :*
that was exactly the point i was trying to make
if you want a competetive acc, you need to use the service called lackeys..
so how many are using these? 80%? 90% of the players??
and we all know you can buy this service from obay and you wont pay rl money, but someone else bought it with his rl money..
point is 80-90% of the players are paying to use this service, then it's hardly donating anymore is it?
i wish i knew who the hell is still buying those dc's though, such fool(s) :D
Josephc at 21:35:32 on 09/07:
I think it's irrelevant that an individual can get dc's without spending any of their own real money. The fact is that real money is being exchanged for the dc in the first place. That person is either receiving the competitive advantage of using lackeys or they're receiving the competitive advantage of whatever ingame money that dc is worth on obay. Either way it goes against the idea of "donating" to the game/community.
Deston at 21:00:08 on 09/07:
But you can get dc's without investing a single penny of your real money. All it takes is some time and knowledge of the game and you can get on from obay. Yes, for ingame money they are (ridiculously?) expensive. If you don't like that then don't get them. If you don't use the crime lackey, you can easily earn a new dc with 5000 credits. Simple as that.
But you can get dc's without investing a single penny of your real money. All it takes is some time and knowledge of the game and you can get on from obay. Yes, for ingame money they are (ridiculously?) expensive. If you don't like that then don't get them. If you don't use the crime lackey, you can easily earn a new dc with 5000 credits. Simple as that.
I think it's irrelevant that an individual can get dc's without spending any of their own real money. The fact is that real money is being exchanged for the dc in the first place. That person is either receiving the competitive advantage of using lackeys or they're receiving the competitive advantage of whatever ingame money that dc is worth on obay. Either way it goes against the idea of "donating" to the game/community.
josephc :*
that was exactly the point i was trying to make
if you want a competetive acc, you need to use the service called lackeys..
so how many are using these? 80%? 90% of the players??
and we all know you can buy this service from obay and you wont pay rl money, but someone else bought it with his rl money..
point is 80-90% of the players are paying to use this service, then it's hardly donating anymore is it?
i wish i knew who the hell is still buying those dc's though, such fool(s) :D
But anyways, as far as who would buy dcs and put them on obay? Come on, we all know one of those people on Omerta. The super dedicated ones that just must have the great account or an intense love of their Omerta family. Maybe they are frustrated because their family came oh so close to getting to the end (or something along those lines). So they decide, damnit, I’m gonna spend a couple hundred bucks or so on dcs and start the next version off right! I guarantee it happens every version with someone.
You know how it is. Here you are in your family at the beginning, trying to scrape by and fund some little object and buy some bullets. But then you look out your window and see that other family that just seems loaded with cash! You think how on Earth are they doing it? Damn those sons of bitches! You know, I’m not willing to fork over a bunch of money on dc’s, but I sure wish I had a family member who was. Hell, I won’t even call him crazy.
But honestly, who’s to say what a person should do with his money? We all have our hobbies and if it makes a person happy, so be it. You know, if I suddenly became rich, I might even try it. Buy a bunch of dedicated proxies, make some accounts, buy some dcs and run the shit out of some lackeys. Prolly even throw a few accts on script just to get crazy!
boesmans (00:11:19 - 10-07)
Nappey at 22:49:22 on 09/07:
josephc :*
that was exactly the point i was trying to make
if you want a competetive acc, you need to use the service called lackeys..
so how many are using these? 80%? 90% of the players??
and we all know you can buy this service from obay and you wont pay rl money, but someone else bought it with his rl money..
point is 80-90% of the players are paying to use this service, then it's hardly donating anymore is it?
i wish i knew who the hell is still buying those dc's though, such fool(s) :D
Josephc at 21:35:32 on 09/07:
I think it's irrelevant that an individual can get dc's without spending any of their own real money. The fact is that real money is being exchanged for the dc in the first place. That person is either receiving the competitive advantage of using lackeys or they're receiving the competitive advantage of whatever ingame money that dc is worth on obay. Either way it goes against the idea of "donating" to the game/community.
Deston at 21:00:08 on 09/07:
But you can get dc's without investing a single penny of your real money. All it takes is some time and knowledge of the game and you can get on from obay. Yes, for ingame money they are (ridiculously?) expensive. If you don't like that then don't get them. If you don't use the crime lackey, you can easily earn a new dc with 5000 credits. Simple as that.
But you can get dc's without investing a single penny of your real money. All it takes is some time and knowledge of the game and you can get on from obay. Yes, for ingame money they are (ridiculously?) expensive. If you don't like that then don't get them. If you don't use the crime lackey, you can easily earn a new dc with 5000 credits. Simple as that.
I think it's irrelevant that an individual can get dc's without spending any of their own real money. The fact is that real money is being exchanged for the dc in the first place. That person is either receiving the competitive advantage of using lackeys or they're receiving the competitive advantage of whatever ingame money that dc is worth on obay. Either way it goes against the idea of "donating" to the game/community.
josephc :*
that was exactly the point i was trying to make
if you want a competetive acc, you need to use the service called lackeys..
so how many are using these? 80%? 90% of the players??
and we all know you can buy this service from obay and you wont pay rl money, but someone else bought it with his rl money..
point is 80-90% of the players are paying to use this service, then it's hardly donating anymore is it?
i wish i knew who the hell is still buying those dc's though, such fool(s) :D
Rix (22:59:02 - 09-07)
Anonymous at 22:31:02 on 09/07:
which fam changed their name to Nuevitas? And who shooting/defending to Nuevitas?
Don't sleep ppl xd
which fam changed their name to Nuevitas? And who shooting/defending to Nuevitas?
Don't sleep ppl xd
Nappey (22:49:22 - 09-07)
Josephc at 21:35:32 on 09/07:
I think it's irrelevant that an individual can get dc's without spending any of their own real money. The fact is that real money is being exchanged for the dc in the first place. That person is either receiving the competitive advantage of using lackeys or they're receiving the competitive advantage of whatever ingame money that dc is worth on obay. Either way it goes against the idea of "donating" to the game/community.
Deston at 21:00:08 on 09/07:
But you can get dc's without investing a single penny of your real money. All it takes is some time and knowledge of the game and you can get on from obay. Yes, for ingame money they are (ridiculously?) expensive. If you don't like that then don't get them. If you don't use the crime lackey, you can easily earn a new dc with 5000 credits. Simple as that.
But you can get dc's without investing a single penny of your real money. All it takes is some time and knowledge of the game and you can get on from obay. Yes, for ingame money they are (ridiculously?) expensive. If you don't like that then don't get them. If you don't use the crime lackey, you can easily earn a new dc with 5000 credits. Simple as that.
I think it's irrelevant that an individual can get dc's without spending any of their own real money. The fact is that real money is being exchanged for the dc in the first place. That person is either receiving the competitive advantage of using lackeys or they're receiving the competitive advantage of whatever ingame money that dc is worth on obay. Either way it goes against the idea of "donating" to the game/community.
josephc :*
that was exactly the point i was trying to make
if you want a competetive acc, you need to use the service called lackeys..
so how many are using these? 80%? 90% of the players??
and we all know you can buy this service from obay and you wont pay rl money, but someone else bought it with his rl money..
point is 80-90% of the players are paying to use this service, then it's hardly donating anymore is it?
i wish i knew who the hell is still buying those dc's though, such fool(s) :D
Anonymous (22:39:45 - 09-07)
Revolucion at 22:37:11 on 09/07:
It's an old nuevitas top/member that is shooting with her dupes... because she doesnt want us to start Nuevitas, while there are enough old nuevitas top in the current family.
Anonymous at 22:33:52 on 09/07:
Some of firenza's did I think...
Anonymous at 22:31:02 on 09/07:
which fam changed their name to Nuevitas? And who shooting/defending to Nuevitas?
Don't sleep ppl xd
which fam changed their name to Nuevitas? And who shooting/defending to Nuevitas?
Don't sleep ppl xd
Some of firenza's did I think...
It's an old nuevitas top/member that is shooting with her dupes... because she doesnt want us to start Nuevitas, while there are enough old nuevitas top in the current family.
what a lame act from old top I would never shoot my own fam.
i was trying to point out that someone is still paying for all those dc's everyone is using